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Dimitroff on Falcons trade and a bit on Belichick

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Uncle Rico, May 1, 2011.

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  1. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No Jersey Selected

    Hadn't seen this posted yet:

    NFP Sunday Blitz | National Football Post

    Article says Dimitroff chatted with Belichick before the draft about his plan for the deal that he eventually made with Cleveland to get Julio Jones. From the article:

    Offers good (though not surprising) insight into Belichick's mindset. There was no doubt in my mind BB would never have made that trade. I wish there was more about the conversation, but the article also has good info on the thought process that led to the trade.
     
  2. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    julio jones isn't even that good. I never get the "we must have this and only THIS player". Receivers are a dime a dozen anyway. He's been known to drop some balls too....how many 1st round WRs bust? Tons.
     
  3. jukes

    jukes Practice Squad Player

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    Sometimes its not just the players fault that they turn out to be busts, but i think jones has tremendous potential and ability.. now they just have to get the best out of him
     
  4. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Hi Bill, what do you think about this trade I'm thinking about doing?

    Oh, you don't like it?

    Oh, OK.

    I'm still going to do it.

    Just wanted to get your opinion, even though I'm going to ignore it.

    What?? Yes, I know I have a Pro Bowl WR already. And yeah, Michael Jenkins is still here. So is Harry Douglas. So?

    We need a pass rusher??? Don't talk to me about a pass rusher!

    Okay look Bill, I have to run. Milk and cookies, then nap, then trading our next two drafts for Julio. I think I'm already in love.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There were rumors that the patriots wanted to get up to 6 for Jones. The price was too high and Bill bowed out of the talks 2-3 days before the draft.
     
  6. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't understand why we are so high on BBs Draft ability. It amuses me that he jumps in and out and up and down. He must be bored on Draft day. Our Drafts are mediocre at best if you throw out one year. We hit on one or two players in the past and it was great last year but the average sucks. They did a ranking and we are like 14th. This up and down stuff has not worked out as well as some say.

    The Packers Draft well and they do not stock pile. Here is BB's problem and I would say it right to his face, He Drafts out of fear we will make a mistake. It is a lot easier to take a pick into the next year. Problem is we don't cash that out as well and swap yet again. You have to put your big boy pants on one day and actually pick Bill. This "value" crap is B.S. Our sixth and seventh pick were a waste. He could NOT actually have picked them. Some ST assistant must have. There was more VALUE on the board Bill! Don't sell me value there. Ridley could have been had later. What was the value there? I almost wish there was no 2012 Draft so he would have had to make picks to help his Team now, not maybe in 2012 or 2013.

    A guy that took the gamble on 4th and two against the Colts with a stock pile worth of picks still won't take a shot with some talent that he himself said might have been the deepest and best on the front seven he has seen in years. Then he defecates the sleeping area when he is up to the plate when there are still decent front seven guys on the board that represent a great value. Great coach. maybe the best ever. Mediocre Draft evaluator.

    The Draft itself was actually very bad this year. Our Draft was not bad. Just not enough value for what ammunition we had in our areas of need. I could care less about 2012. Ask TB if he cares about the Draft choices we have in the coming years. He wants to know about now at 34 years old.

    The Koolaid is very bitter Cousins.

    I like the fact the the Falcons took their best shot. I hope it works. Bill might see the light.


    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  7. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You mean he gets the best of both worlds by taking the player AND still keeping the pick for next year??? (See 2012 First and Second rounds)

    How can that possibly be a BAD thing?? If the player works out, all the better...If he doesn't then we still get to keep the pick anyway!! It's absolutely the mark of a true genius. We not only get the BPA + address possible current AND future needs, we actually act as though we didn't even take anyone, by keeping all of the high picks!! Who else does that on a consistent basis?

    Believe me, having a coach this smart who allows us to compete EVERY year, allows us to continue building up our team by adding youth, speed, and depth, AND still stockpiles for the next drafts' HIGH rounds is an absolute blessing.

    It's a definite positive, no doubt about that...not sure why or even HOW you could see it otherwise??

    When the day comes that this team has a poor year, suffers a major (God forbid) injury, or needs restocked, or Belichick is no longer the coach---we all will be more than thankful that he left our team in such a positive state. He is always 2-3 steps ahead of everyone, and will continue to be so. The fact that he looks to the future so much says a lot about what he feels about this team, and how long he may even want to be here.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  8. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    The Falcons got robbed blind in their tradeup for Julio Jones. You call that seeing the light? Must people see that as a LOPSIDED deal in favor of the Browns. Just say NO to 'Herschel Walker' type trades. The Browns got a huge BOUNTY out of the Falcon's desperation.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  9. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh, absolutely. They literally put all of the eggs in one basket, and CLE got the best trade down deal in a while (IMO).

    I feel as though the Falcons are almost desperate for a big play WR to help compliment the talents of M.Ryan, and overpaid greatly...disgustingly to try and fulfill that hole. They haven't won a playoff game since '04, and the fans are getting somewhat restless. Instead of staying put, building a good competitive team now AND for the future, they decide to pull a Herschal Walker type deal which could potentially set the franchise back. I could just as easily see a 9-7, or 10-6 year, as I could J.Jones making THAT much of a difference in won/lost percentage.

    Like Dimitroff said, "Belichick would never do that." There's an obvious reason why...:eek:
     
  10. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    The average takes into account 2006 to 2008, which were our worst drafts ever. I'm not saying they don't count. But if you look at the entire body of work, including 2000 to 2005, you get a very different picture.

    You can look at Brady's last 3 play off games and conclude he is an awful pressure QB who won't ever win a Super Bowl. You'd be wrong, but that's the conclusion you could draw from limited data.

    I think the up-and-down thing has worked great. I don't understand the criticism, and can only conclude you're not looking at what happened but rushing to judgment. But consider:

    In 2006, we didn't actually move much at all, sitting and picking in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th rounds. In the 2nd, we made a big move up to get Chad Jackson which obviously didn't pan out, but it's the type of move a lot of people on here want us to constantly do. But not an up-and-down kind of draft.

    In 2007, we traded away our second and third. We hit on our 1st rounder (which came via trade oddly enough), then had a late 4th, late 5th, 4 6ths and 2 7ths that we missed on. We moved a bit on two of those picks, but most were comp picks or else we didn't move at all. Obviously not a great draft, but not as if we had a ton to work with either.

    In 2008, this was probably the worst draft we did because of the misses in the 2nd and 3rd. But again, we did not move up and down much. The big move was dropping down and selecting Mayo, and the extra pick went towards Crable. Bust, but that was a pick we didn't have and only generated during the draft by moving. We stayed put in the 2nd and drafted a bust. We stayed put in the 3rd and 4th as well.

    So the up-and-down nature of business had absolutely nothing to do with the 2006 to 2008 drafts. To blame that style on the poor drafting during those years is absolutely incorrect.
     
  11. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A lot of rumors. Means what? That's right.
     
  12. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Agree 100%.

    However, IMO, the "Crable = Bust" tag should always come with an asterisk. It's not as if he didn't perform due to BB overestimating his talent, but from BB not having the super-prescience to know that Crable (with no prior significant injury history) was going to be on IR for two consecutive seasons. Same could be applied to the McKenzie pick. To include either of them as part of an indictment of BB's drafting is just silly. That would be comparable to saying that the Giants were stupid to have drafted Chad Jones in 2010.

    Conversely, Wheatley, though he showed a ton of talent in college, DID have an injury history and was a risky pick, so perhaps BB deserves a "demerit" for making that bet and losing.
     
  13. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I agree to an extent. I go back and forth on Crable. The injuries played a part, but when he was healthy last year, he didn't do much either. Part of that could be lack of PT stunted his growth. I don't know what to make of him, really.

    And I'm sure most will give demerits to BB for taking an injury risk like Wheatley. But to me, those are calculated risks and you can't win every single one. Does that mean you don't try? Sometimes the worst hand in poker wins. It's about measuring the risk vs. the potential reward. For Wheatley, yes, we lost. But if we take 3 or 4 risks like that, we'll win 1 or 2, and they'll be huge wins. Ras-I might be that big win that is worth 5 to 10 lost hands. We don't know, but so long as the proper risk assessment is made, I'm okay with continuing to take those chances. Mallett is a prime example of that, risky choice in the 1st, great risk/reward in the 3rd. Ditto Cannon in the 5th, or Tate in the 3rd in 2009. The hands that lose aren't failures in my mind. They're just hands that didn't work out, but they had to be played.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  14. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't like the actuall trade itself because I feel like Atl gave up a lot for an unproven player but at the same time, I like the idea of "going for it".
     
  15. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Well, BB won't put you on the IR with a pulled hammy if he thinks you have a chance of contributing when healthy. Crable was a very bad pick. You're right on your demerit w/regard to Wheatley though.
     
  16. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    And yet, we have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, its almost entirely home drafted, and we went 14-2 last year. Hrm.
     
  17. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Patriots draft in the last 8 or so picks every single year, and because of that, they don't have access to Premium talent that doesn't have some sort of asterisk.

    Once you get outside the top 15 or so picks, you no longer get the high-upside, high floor type players. You get guys who either have high floors and low ceilings, or high ceilings and high bust risks (either because of low floor, or because of injury risk, or whatever).


    Every year the patriots take a bunch of high ceiling guys knowing that a couple will be outright busts, but one or two will turn into starter quality players. Teams like the Lions/Browns/etc can draft those low ceiling guys and know they'll still be good enough to start. The Patriots have to worry about roster space.
     
  18. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Probably not. But Crable did go to IR, so, one might think the injury was something more than a pulled hammy, at least the second go around. I mean, I could see BB redshirting a rookie with a pull if he thought the guy wasn't going to contribute a lot his first season and he had other positions to take care of that he needed the roster spot for. Don't think he'd redshirt the guy for a second consecutive year with a minor injury unless he'd shown amazing promise during his healthy window (which I'm not sure Crable did). Ergo, year two would likely have been something more than minor.

    In any case, this IS the Pats were talking about. Probably no team gives up more obscure and misleading injury information. So, if WE are hearing that it was a hammy, it was likely something completely different. Like maybe he tripped and fell down the stairs and landed on his head?
     
  19. Big Bucks

    Big Bucks Practice Squad Player

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    #75 Jersey

    If they wanted a good NFL tried and tested WR why didn't they go get Vincent Jackson before he signed his tender. I'm sure San Diego would be willing to take two 1sts.

    Ultimatley I'd imagine both players will be on the same amount of money too.
     
  20. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats actually a pretty good question. Its probably a small chance Jones is better than Jackson, who is already elite, and there's a good chance hes never anywhere near as good.
     
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