Dilfer: Pats' struggles easy to see

[SHOWTIME15]

Trent Dilfer: Patriots rut is simple to see - BostonHerald.com

Basically he says we've become too predictable. We are essentially using Josh McDaniels' boring offense and using the same plays. Well, teams have done their HW and see what the pats are doing. I've always hated this offense - always loved the Charlie Weis unpredictability. You got to pin this one on Belichick though. He should have recognized this and made adjustments. At halftime, they are not doing what they should be doing properly. I think BB is too concerned with the defense and letting O'Brien run the offense by himself. I think it needs to stop from this point on. They NEED Edelman to play and become another threat.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Dilfer: Pats Struggles Easy to See

Trent Dilfer: Patriots rut is simple to see - BostonHerald.com

Basically he says we've become too predictable. We are essentially using Josh McDaniels' boring offense and using the same plays. Well, teams have done their HW and see what the pats are doing. I've always hated this offense - always loved the Charlie Weis unpredictability. You got to pin this one on Belichick though. He should have recognized this and made adjustments. At halftime, they are not doing what they should be doing properly. I think BB is too concerned with the defense and letting O'Brien run the offense by himself. I think it needs to stop from this point on. They NEED Edelman to play and become another threat.

I'm too busy to read the article but I agree with the general things you wrote.

O'Brien
Empty backfield
Not mixing up the count

All problems.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I agree 100% and when certain personnel come in the game, the defense knows it is a run or pass based on that personnel. MIX IT UP please BB!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaBruinz]

Trent Dilfer: Patriots rut is simple to see - BostonHerald.com

Basically he says we've become too predictable. We are essentially using Josh McDaniels' boring offense and using the same plays. Well, teams have done their HW and see what the pats are doing. I've always hated this offense - always loved the Charlie Weis unpredictability. You got to pin this one on Belichick though. He should have recognized this and made adjustments. At halftime, they are not doing what they should be doing properly. I think BB is too concerned with the defense and letting O'Brien run the offense by himself. I think it needs to stop from this point on. They NEED Edelman to play and become another threat.

Too bad its NOT Josh McDaniels offense. It's Belichick's. This came out this year..

 

[JoeSixPat]

Too bad its NOT Josh McDaniels offense. It's Belichick's. This came out this year..

I think the point was that McDaniels offense was predictable. That was fine when the players were dominant but that seems to be less of the case now.

I agree McDaniels was not a creative play caller and there were times, even on that 2007 team, when that could have improved the offense and potentially could have won us one more game.

This year I think criticizing predicable play calling is fair - but the real problem is in the lack of execution.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Why can't they comeup with a new playbook? Is it really too much work to come up with new plays and have the team learn them? Is that too much to ask of them?

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I agree with Dilfer.


1st play today - Empty backfield... Obvious pass
2nd play today - Strong I-Formation with Maroney in the backfield... obvious run


4th down - FullBack Run...so obvious. Called it way before the snap.



TERRIBLE play calling.

 

[Brarrell]

Trent Dilfer: Patriots rut is simple to see - BostonHerald.com

Basically he says we've become too predictable. We are essentially using Josh McDaniels' boring offense and using the same plays. Well, teams have done their HW and see what the pats are doing. I've always hated this offense - always loved the Charlie Weis unpredictability. You got to pin this one on Belichick though. He should have recognized this and made adjustments. At halftime, they are not doing what they should be doing properly. I think BB is too concerned with the defense and letting O'Brien run the offense by himself. I think it needs to stop from this point on. They NEED Edelman to play and become another threat.

You can't be serious what they need is a third reciever like Gaffney or Stallworth. Edelman 2009 is at best a 5th reciever along with Aiken.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

This offense has become vanilla and predictable. Keep Moss in check and double Wes and you basically beat them. Today they got some contribution out of the running game and Tight End position. What's concerning is the number of times our RB's have been coughing up the ball in critical situations.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the point was that McDaniels offense was predictable. That was fine when the players were dominant but that seems to be less of the case now.

I agree McDaniels was not a creative play caller and there were times, even on that 2007 team, when that could have improved the offense and potentially could have won us one more game.

This year I think criticizing predicable play calling is fair - but the real problem is in the lack of execution.

First, it wasn't too predictable under McDaniels. Second, being unpredictable is overrated. Most skillled DCs and defensive players can pretty successfully guess what type of play a team is running before a play is snapped. It isn't rocket science. Where a great coordinator works is dignosing the weaknesses of other teams and exploiting them.

McDaniels like Weis before him would gear the offense to exploit weaknesses. That isn't what O'Brien is doing. That is the difference.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, Dilfer says that the Pats are running many of the same plays as 2007, but not the same offense.

Here is what Dilfer said:

Dilfer said the Pats are relying on many of the same plays they used during the record-setting 2007 season. The difference in 2009?

“In 2007, with Randy (Moss) and Tom, it was sick,” Dilfer said. “When they got one-on-one matchups outside, when Randy was ’singled’, when there was a one-high safety look, whether it was the hitch, whether it was the quick out, whether it was the bomb, whether it was the crossing route, whether it was the slant, it was unstoppable. That is not the case this year.”

That record-setting offense was also a lot more “multiple,” as Dilfer terms it. They ran the ball a lot more from the shotgun, and disguised more through their formations.

“Now, they don’t show you a lot of different looks. There’s not a lot of personnel groupings, there’s not a lot of formations, not a lot of window dressing,” Dilfer said. “When you don’t have those things, those elements are part of the secret sauce that allows you to execute. It gives you the advantage that allows you to execute at a higher level.”

 

[Deus Irae]

BTW, Dilfer says that the Pats are running many of the same plays as 2007, but not the same offense.

Here is what Dilfer said:

Dilfer said the Pats are relying on many of the same plays they used during the record-setting 2007 season. The difference in 2009?

But reporting accurately would not have allowed people to post nonsense about predictability regarding McDaniels.

 

[hwc]

I think that it is much simpler than all that. I think that the all pass all the time Air Belichick offense has met the same fate as most all-pass all-the-time offenses and the unravelling started at the end of the 2007 season.

I think all of us knew going into this year that the Pats needed to establish at least a little running game to take the heat of Brady and keep him from getting killed. That hasn't happened and, predictably, Brady is getting killed.

It's the same thing that happened to Kurt Warner and the Greatest Show on Turf Rams.

Right now, the Pats only real ability to score is throwing the home run ball. If they hit a few, they put points on the board. If they don't, they score 17 and have to count on a poor defense to win games.

 

[RayClay]

Wow, that's a news slash Trent.

I guess maverick doesn't get to start this thread huh? lol

 

[RayClay]

Here is what Dilfer said:

Yes, if you eliminate 95% of his content, that is what he said.

for example, this preceded

“They are very, very predictable in what they’re doing,” Dilfer told the Herald last week. “It happens to every team that becomes -- I don’t want to say one-dimensional -- but they become limited in what they show a defense. And, what the Patriots have become, is very stagnant offensively.

“When they run the ball, they’re going to run it out of a loaded formation. Tom Brady [stats]’s going to be under center. Their answer off of that is play-action and (throwing) deep routes. Everything else, is the shotgun with one back, and they’re going to have (Wes) Welker in the slot. They may have a little window dressing on it, but they’re going to have their individual matchups ... they’ll throw perimeter routes, if they get two high safeties, they’ll work Welker to the middle. But it’s so simplistic from a defensive perspective.”

That kind of simplicity makes it easier for defenses to contain them, and prevent them from scoring with the alacrity they usually show in the first half. Defenses get used to the Patriots’ tendencies.

“When an offense becomes simplistic, and loses its multiplicity, the defense becomes comfortable with what they’re seeing in the second half,” Dilfer said. “They don’t have to think as much. Any time a defense doesn’t have to think, they’re going to play better. So if you’re giving them less to think about, less window dressing, less to prepare against, (fewer) bells and whistles, the better they’re going to play -- and I really believe this is what’s happening to the Patriots in the second halves of games.”

Dilfer can understand why the Pats are calling the same plays, with the confidence they will work. But he wonders why they are allowing defense to get comfortable with what they are seeing.

Why haven’t Pats coach Bill Belichick and quarterbacks coach Bill O’Brien, who is presumed to be calling the plays, been able to recognize this foible?

“Because they’re stuck in this rut, where they’ve always done this well, so they say to themselves, ‘Why can’t we keep doing it well?’ ” Dilfer said. “(Former Seahawks coach) Mike Holmgren would say the same thing. There’s a lot of people that disagree with the philosophy that you have to confuse defenses. I personally don’t think it’s up for debate. I’ve talked to a lot of defensive players and a lot of defensive coordinators. If they believe they know what’s coming before it comes, they feel they have a very good chance of stopping it. When they’re hesitant, that’s when they struggle.”

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, if you eliminate 95% of his content, that is what he said.

for example, this preceded

I am just addressing the "McDaniels offense" that the Pats are supposably running this year. I am not disputing there are problems with this year's offense.

 

[RayClay]

I am just addressing the "McDaniels offense" that the Pats are supposably running this year. I am not disputing there are problems with this year's offense.

No problem. My position is our offense really suffered when teams started going all out to stop Moss the second half of 2007, when we should have capitalized on their imbalance.

McDaniels had his good and bad points.

Moss is getting old too. We need to really reevaluate on offense while we have the talent.

 

[Rob0729]

No problem. My position is our offense really suffered when teams started going all out to stop Moss the second half of 2007, when we should have capitalized on their imbalance.

McDaniels had his good and bad points.

Moss is getting old too. We need to really reevaluate on offense while we have the talent.

The offense rarely suffered in 2007. In fact, Maroney stepped up at the end of the season. The Pats had a near perfect offensive performance against Jacksonville in the playoffs with Brady never even looking to Moss. In fact, Brady got the completion percentage record until this year in that game. Against the Chargers in the AFCCG, the Pats offense had a 9 minute drive in the fourth quarter to win the game. The only games where the offense really suffered other than the Super Bowl were bad weather games in the wind. And the Super Bowl problems had nothing to do with Moss because was open for most of the game and Brady rarely had time to throw a screen.

There are good and bad points of every OC. Go to archive.org and look at the comments on this board about Weis circa 2002 and 2003. People will talk about how Weis gave up on the run in the second half of games, over relied on gimmick plays that never worked, and can't convert third downs. Weis is only considered a brilliant coordinator because of 2004. I still don't get why McDaniels gets this "too predictable" and "benefitted from his talent" tag yet Weis benefitted from arguably having the best QB and RB in the league in 2004.

Sorry to turn this into another Weis vs. McDaniels argument, but McDaniels was far better than most people give him credit for. The reason why O'Brien is struggling has nothing to do with McDaniels. McDaniels was a pretty creative offensive coordinator.

 

[Deus Irae]

No problem. My position is our offense really suffered when teams started going all out to stop Moss the second half of 2007, when we should have capitalized on their imbalance...

Yeah, that's another myth. It's right there with the Pittsburgh linebacker theory.

 

[PittPatriot]

Yeah, that's another myth. It's right there with the Pittsburgh linebacker theory.

I know this getting off-track with this thread...but what is the Pittsburgh LB theory? I imagine it deals with the talent on the field vs. the schemes by the DC coordinator?