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Dilemma: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Turns out we didn't use it to fight the last Hitler... not at this interrogation center, that turned up info on jet engines, rocketry, and acoustic torpedos.

    Alexandria Times | Secret WWII operation at ?P.O. Box 1142? bears lessons for today

    We got this shiit by playing checkers.

    Sure, it might not work on the worst of the worst, the hardest-core of the hard-core. But I bet it would work fine on cab drivers, if it worked on Nazis.

    PFnV
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2009
  2. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    You'd crack if they threatened to take away your American Express.
     
  3. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    Good old sociology....Not the Marx stuff, the other stuff!
     
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    So you only rated AMEX, Michael? Harsh.

    And the contribution of the poster whose name begins with Alvin is something to do with sociology.

    Now then, have either of you actually read the article? Can you, in fact, read the article?

    PFnV
     
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    Well that was then and this is now>

    Perhaps ean early morning Leggs & Eggs at the Foxy Lady.

    or a little gambling and flirting on one of those off shore boats that never dock in thje same place.

    Muslims love Allah and they love butt popping pretty women.
    Why butt popping?
    Well iot's because that's how they do each other in the cave ... it's what they are used to.
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    I find it so strange that so many conservatives defend torture and attack empathy. It's really the same mentality as terrorists have. Thank God our Constitution protect us from those kinds of conservatives. Our liberal founders were very wise, but we have to remain ever vigilant against the disease of conservatism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  7. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?


    Disease? :rofl: ... thanks for the pre-work laugh.

    If conservatism is a disease then what do liberals like pelosi and Boxer have?
    Conservatives at least deal with what they have ... liberals love to print what they don't have.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    Responsible people work with what they have. In that sense, there are responsible liberals and conservatives. For instance, liberals are being responsible by proposing tax increases to pay for national health care. Republicans introduced tax cuts to pay for wars. It didn't work.
     
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    I don't quite understand the "worked then wouldn't work now" reaction to this story. It is, however, the closest thing to a comment on the story, other than Patter's observation.

    Do you have a reason for your reader to believe that this would not work now? Evidently administrations prior to George II's said we don't torture, and it's a bad idea.

    That's even when we fought Nazis. REAL Nazis. You should know that AQ are pikers compared to Nazis.

    Patters, you provided the other comment of importance vis a vis this story: Why indeed are we so quick to villify empathy and glorify savagery?

    All the other reactions have been of no actual use as a discussion of the subject matter at hand. I would counsel everyone, and particularly Mods (Michael,) to try to avoid personal insults and stick to the topic at hand. You may not like me, but I don't know who could read this story and not be impressed at the people and events described.

    I especially like reading the now-old interrogators who are interviewed about torture, saying they "couldn't" do it. Not that they wouldn't, but they couldn't, even if ordered to.

    Maybe they'd crack too, if you took away their Luckys, right Michael? Shouldn't they be big ol' John Wayne tough guys? Isn't that the only kind of guy who's of any use to his country?

    Huh. But these guys got intel on jet engines and rocketry in the 1940s... the mind boggles.

    PFnV
     
  10. 363839

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    I suppose that you could argue that when taken from their German environment that the National Socialists could actually be reasoned with.
    Religious fanatics on the other hand seem a tad more obsessed.
    Not that I condone torture.
     
  11. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    More like:

    Responsible people work with what they have. In that sense, there are responsible liberals and conservatives. For instance, liberals are being irresponsible by proposing tax increases (thus decreasing economic growth and decrease government revenue) to pay for national health care and the Afgan war. Republicans introduced tax cuts (to stimulate economic growth and increase government revenue) to pay for wars. No matter the amount of government revenue, both parties are overspending.

    How's Obama's plan affecting government revenue this year?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    The facts don't support that. Under Eisenhower and Kennedy rich Americans paid higher taxes, yet the economy did very well. Under Clinton, rich Americans paid higher taxes, yet the economy did very well. Under Reagan, rich Americans paid lower taxes, but he deficit spent to the tune of $500 billion to sustain the economy. Taxes are simply a tool to regulate the economy. Sometimes we need higher ones, sometimes we need lower ones.
     
  13. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    Kennedy cut taxes and the economy did very well. Reagan cut taxes and the economy did very well. And as far as Clinton, he relunctantly signed a tax cut in 1997:

     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  14. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well, a few issues with the conclusions you're drawing, based on this article and the wiki page on PO box 1142.

    P. O. Box 1142 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    First, it seems like most of the useful information was from "interrogating" scientists, like Von Braun. I'd say "interviewing" is probably the correct term here, since the German scientific community didn't have real strong ties to the Nazi regime, they did their work out of national pride and sometimes fear of retribution rather than ideology, so passing on their secrets was probably not a hard sell.

    The second thing is that you ignore the fact that despite the guards' claims that prisoners were treated humanely, we don't have clear records that there were no abusers among the lot of interrogators, just a few former interrogators discussing their own actions.

    The third thing is even if true that nobody was mistreated at the facility (and I would actually tend to believe these guys), this facility was still illegal and in violation of the Geneva convention (from wiki page). If this place was discovered today the focus would be on the lack of access for the red cross, and the fact that at least one prisoner killed himself despite the supposed good conditions. It sounds silly, but think about it, a secret facility where high level Nazi POWs are taken and interrogated to get critical information about the war and enemy technology/capabilities. A place where people are taken secretly with no records provided to international human rights agencies, in violation of the Geneva convention. Doesn't it sound like something that the media today would run with as an example of government abuse or illegal activity?

    At any rate, it is a pretty cool story, and I hope they interview as many of the former workers there as they can to shed more light on what must have been a fascinating place to be.
     
  15. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: Dilemna: Using Torture to Fight Next Hitler?

    I'm not sure I agree ... I have been of the opinion that the wars were sort of funded by pork. Bush left conservatism and used posrk to win the votes of the left, middle and right. Tax cuts did not fund the wars ... pork did in a round about way.
     

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