Welcome to PatsFans.com

Did the Patriots Get the Best Deal For Cassel?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFans.com Article, Mar 2, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PatsFans.com Article

    PatsFans.com Article Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Ian's Daily Blog - There are many wondering (myself included) if the Patriots did indeed get maximum value for this weekend’s trade involving quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel, who were both shipped off to Kansas City for the Chiefs 2nd-round pick in the upcoming NFL Draft.Unfortunately after having time to digest the circumstances around this deal, I [...]

    More...
  2. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,514
    Likes Received:
    237
    Ratings:
    +381 / 12 / -1

    #87 Jersey

    No they didn't, a 2nd round pick for 2 good players is BS peoples. BS I SAID :enranged::rofl:

    [​IMG]
    ^^scott pioli
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  3. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    49
    Ratings:
    +98 / 1 / -6

    #51 Jersey

    :ugh: :scream: We need to drink to forget about it!!
  4. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 3 / -0

    Interesting thought but I'm going drive home a different idea and going to disagree with this specific part

    "we’ve seen before how Belichick values players (and has previously traded down in the early first round when he felt that the right guy wasn’t there), and he simply may not have seen a player that high that he felt would have given him the value for the money that they were looking for."

    BB moves up in the first round. He might trade out for additional years but most times BB moves up in the draft when he targets a player. Graham, Warren, Wilson, Jackson, Light... These players were targeted in the 1st and 2nd round. Players we wanted.. You can't say BB didn't value a player that high because we don't know how the draft will unfold.

    Kind sounds like a spin job to me.. I think most people rather be sitting in the drivers seat with TB or Denvers pick than in the 2nd round. During draft day if a player of value is not there you can trade back. WE saw it last year with Mayo. Pats took less in the trade with New Orleans (per the trade chart) just to move back and save money.. They could have done it again but unfort we won't know..
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  5. mike_usagisan

    mike_usagisan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I'm sorry, I just don't buy Mortensen's report that Bill passed on a guaranteed pick #12. Every other report I've read suggests that the deal wasn't really put together between Tampa Bay and Denver, with the suggestion that Tampa Bay was hot to get Cutler and Denver not so sure they wanted to give him up. The Broncos say that they were willing to listen to the deal, but weren't going to pull the trigger. And tampa didn't want to get stuck with Cassel. There was no other deal. Sorry.

    I'm sick of all the people saying that the choice was clear cut between 12 and 34, when one was a real deal and one was a maybe-could-be deal. BB is known for doing his homework. Why aren't we willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually did it here? Because Mort says so?
  6. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 3 / -0

    Cutler is on the radio furious with what what on.. Believe Mort or not but you can see the result, Cutler is pissed about the possible trade.. If Cutler was going then who do you think McDaniels wanted? Garcia?? It was Cassel.. No doubt about it..
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,741
    Likes Received:
    412
    Ratings:
    +872 / 6 / -16

    #87 Jersey

    Only a fool would think Belichick screwed this up. I say this every year ... we always have armchair GM's making comments during this time of the season and not one of them, including those here know what the blueprint will be for the coming season. Belichick tweaks what this team is about every year and that's why we stay one of the best. Unless someone knows what the blueprint is for the coming year then they have no knowledge of how good or bad a deal it was. I'd rather say it was a great deal ... because I'm sure it was based on what we're doing for the upcoming season ... as always ... I eagerly await what the season will bring.
  8. mike_usagisan

    mike_usagisan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Cutler's been asking for a trade since his OC left. That doesn't mean that Denver was going to do it. Pro-Bowl QB vs. a guy who had one good year in NE?

    McDaniels and the GM both answer to the owner over there. Just because McD might have gone for Cassel doesn't mean that the owner and GM would have.
  9. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 3 / -0

    and only fools would accept this trade as a non issue.. No one, including BB, knows how the offseason will unfold (how his roster will be set). He has a road map how he wants it to look but in reality he doesn't know the finished product.. SO the best way to get to that finished product is to maximize your assests. ANd I 100% believe BB did not do this..
  10. eom

    eom Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -1

    mcsully -- I'll let you answer for all the armchair gm's who have strong opinions on this w/o having even 10% of the info needed to have an informed opinion.

    I'm curious as to what the pats were 'supposed' to get and who was giving it to them ---- oh, and when this was going to happen, because the when is pretty significant.
  11. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 3 / -0

    not an arm chair GM, QB.. Just a fan voicing his displeasure with the trade. Like i've posted 100times before, Culpepper (with a blown out knee) and AJ feeley brought in 2nd round picks. Cassel is head and shoulders above them.

    Plus the fact we hear now Detriot/TB/Denver were interested in a deal.. Maybe they were late to the party and if so, part of the blame falls on them but part of the blame falls on BB. He should have called around and said "K.C is doing this for a 2nd. Can you beat it? I'll give you till the end of Saturday/Sunday. "

    And to answer you last SIGNIFICANT part.. If they wanted 24 more hours, per Mort, King and others, the 3 team deal could have gone down and netted the Pats a higher pick..

    But hey, I'm just a fan.. I see a average TE's in the past 2 years get 2nd rounders (winslow and shockey).. Hell even Jason Taylor, who just got released, got the dolpins a 2

    Why should I be bothered that a 26 year old QB in a QB driven league should only net us a 2nd rounder..
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  12. eom

    eom Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -1

    well, first of all, I guess you threw culpepper out there as a comparison because you seem to think being a qb makes him a comparable commodity.

    so, I suppose you'd pay caddy prices for your kia rio just because they're both cars.

    just because one idiot overpays for something doesn't mean the rest of the world will --- each one of these is entirely unique situations.
    cassell is not a pork belly, or a share of ibm --- he's a rare coin, or action comics #1.
    not because of his tremendous value, but because he's a unique item that's only worth what you get paid for him.

    probably the most quoted comparison on this deal was that schaub trade, and I don't even see how those two situations were remotely similar.
    the pats were motivated sellers w/a limited # of partners.
    in the end everybody got what they wanted, and just like those other deals, like branch, or moss, only time will tell if it works out well.

    you might want to acknowledge that you really have no idea wtf you're talking about when it comes to these rumors about who was going to do what and just be happy we got what we got.


    edit: and while I'll never put culpepper ahead of anybody, it remains to be seen how far ahead of aj feeley cassell turns out to be.....
    plz bookmark this thread and bump it after he's had one season in kc.

    and feeley was traded for a second round pick the following year, you idiot.
    do you really think that has equal value to a pick this year??
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  13. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +4 / 3 / -0

    I stopped reading your post after the first sentence.. You basically shot yourself in the foot..
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,873
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +59 / 2 / -0

    In general I tend to agree that what we got for Cassel was the best we could do at the time of the trade. (Though I think you're reaching suggesting that the #12 pick would be too high and expensive in terms of value in the draft... Top 5 pick, maybe, and I can understand Belichick not demanding #3 from Pioli... but #12 is a pretty good value pick in nearly every draft in my book.)

    But over all regular fans like us may never truly appreciate all that was and is involved in these sort of trades.

    Cassel may have had a short list of teams and his agent had ample time to let every team know who was in and out of the running. His agent likely floated salary requirements as well (and for those of you who think Cassel and his agent would never violate the gag order once he signed the tender, well, then you can just assume they had those conversations BEFORE he signed the tender.)

    All of that certainly would limit the market.

    As far as the last minute offers - or the decision by Belichick to rush, or not pull the plug on the Chiefs deal in light of the last minute offerings, Belichick understands that sometimes you can be pennywise and pound foolish in extracting maximum value.

    Nearly all players and coaches WANT TO PLAY FOR Belichick. Why? Because he's tough, he's fair, and he's a winner.

    Stab a player in the back - or a GM for that matter - and it comes back to haunt you.

    Belichick surely could have pulled the plug on the Cassel to KC trade given the last minute deals. But it may be that he had an agreement and understanding with Cassel... not to mention Pioli. Having that sort of a good name is what often gets us top caliber players at bargain basement prices.

    If any of those matters were considerations I have no doubt that Belichick did the right thing by keeping his word and letting the trade go forward. In the long run, that may be the best for the Patriots. The bottom line is that none of us really know what was happening behind the scenes.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  15. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The Pats turned a 7th round pick into the 34th pick of this years draft. That's genius.

    Also, time is a critical component in any negotiation. With the downside of a $14 million contract, I would bet BB set a time limit on how long this would go and stuck to it.

    Too many here sound like an idiot I know who still complains about selling oil futures when they were "only" at $138 with "only" an 80% profit.
  16. mike_usagisan

    mike_usagisan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    But I'm not sure he didn't give them a deadline. From the moment we tagged Cassel, every other franchise knew he was probably up to be traded (especially when all the Brady is fine stories started coming out). Nobody was offering more than a 2 (per King). I simply don't believe that BB didn't find out if anyone could offer better after that. If Tampa Bay said, give us time, BB probably said you got 12 hours, or whatever, to get Denver on board. They couldn't convince Denver (because other than Mort, no one, including the Broncos themselves, is saying Denver wanted to trade Cutler).

    The deal went down. And now people want to believe BB had #12 in hand and turned it down. Sorry, I believe in BB's ability a lot more than Mort's unnamed source.
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,741
    Likes Received:
    412
    Ratings:
    +872 / 6 / -16

    #87 Jersey


    If I had a dollar for every post here making a comment regarding Belichick screwing up
    I'd be retired by now ... the Lawyer Milloy posts were historic... we were so doomed according to many members at that time. :singing:
    Oh I'm sure Bill makes errors ... but if I had a dollar for every one of those I'd be broke ... very, very broke.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>