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Did the liberals hold a candlelight vigil tonight for John Allen Muhammad?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by cupofjoe1962, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am sure quite a few liberals are sad tonight because of the loss of
    John Allen Muhammad.

    Too bad Massachusetts does not have the death penalty.
    The idea that my tax money is paying for pedophile murders like
    Charles Jaynes and Salvatore Sicari to live makes me sick.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    More hatred and baseless speculation based on hatred. No one here sheds a tear for this man, but then neither do they for you, race baiter.

    This thread is nothing more than a partisan attempt to antagonize the forum into another pissing match by way of personal ridicule and pretentious exaggeration. It should be locked, and perhaps the original poster can grow up and re-establish the topic for intelligent discussion in a less petty fashion. Or perhaps not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  3. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    My thread is not based on race.
    I believe that Salvatore Sicari should have received the same punnishment
    as John Allen Muhammad.

    I applaud states like Virginia and Texas who do not waist tax payers money
    on the scum of the earth.

    It use to take 10 years to put a killer to death with the appeal process.
    Nice to see that Virginia cut it down to 7 years.

    If it make you feel any better Press Coverage, I also agreed with the
    decision to put Timmothy McVeigh to death.

    Somehow I have a feeling the liberls did not feel as bad when Timmothy McVeigh
    was put to death.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  4. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Well, your "feelings" on this one are way off base. I don't know anyone who shed a tear, or even said "wait a minute" over the death of either man.

    However, since you mentioned tax payer money, I'll bet you're unaware that is costs more to execute a person than it does to incarcerate him for a life sentence.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  5. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well who are we to question the Urban Institute !

    37.2 Million for each execution.
    I find that hard to believe !

    Then again... I have no problem spending money to put them to death.
    Spending 1 penny to keep them alive is the problem.

    Maybe it is time to go back to a good old hanging & charge
    admission. I would pay to see a scumbag like Charles Jaynes and Salvatore Sicari swing from a rope.

    Tie them to a tree in the boston common's and charge people
    $25 a throw to hit them with a rock from 25 yards.

    It might be a bit barbaric, but I like the idea.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  6. moniker

    moniker Rookie

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    Learn from It :::hold a candlelight vigil tonight for John Allen Muhammad?

    It is too easy to sit at a keyboard and pull triggers or label unseen foes.
    Patriots go outside and participate in a community.

    Liberals, Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats are just labels weak spirits hide behind. Get out, stand up and be an American.
     
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    In that case you should move to Saudi, Iraq or Iran. They let their citizens do it for free.
     
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Guess the constitution is a situational document for you then.... suspect many of these folks were religious folks, and did not have all that much to do with politics... just a specific ideology.

    From the voice of experience, twice I was subpoenaed to out of state trials all expenses paid, once in Va. and once in Fla.. the first one had to do with gangland slaying by a girl I knew from kiddie jail, they paid for me and three others to fly down, gave us hotel accomodations per diem etc. My testimony was benign, and had no impact, I asked why and they said it was the responsibility of the defense to provide for a "vigorous" defense... so the outcome would not show that they did not try.. they did not sentence the girl to death.

    The second time I was subpoenaed to Florida, in a case involving a man I knew who killed a CO, they offered the same deal, I refused though.. will not testify in such a case... he got the death penalty, it had nothing to do with my refusal.. the kid killed a CO and stuffed her in a locker.

    Bottom line is that death penalty cases are very expensive, and often drag on forever...

    Here is some information from Kansas, who instituted such a study..

    Death Penalty Cost

    And one from the state of Washington..

    Walla Walla Union-Bulletin: Local News

     
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Right, and you'd only need 1.5 million people to show up to almost break even.

    I suppose you could always sell hot dogs and tee-shirts which read, "Kiss Me!! I helped kill a man!!"
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    We have a bigger deficit to make up.

    It's striking that there were no protesters of any kind at this particular execution. I don't know whether it's a sometimes they do/sometimes they don't kind of thing, or whether it was a matter of "hell, I just can't bring myself to protest this death." I doubt the latter; they've protested the executions of many other heinous killers.

    It's stupid and easy to have this feel-good macabre pack bloodlust reaction when such a sentence is carried out.

    I'm one of the few here against the death penalty, and no, his death doesn't bring a tear to my eye for him. I don't like, however, what it says about us. Put him in a concrete box for his lifetime and let nature take its course; it's cheaper.

    By the way, it's expensive to execute a man because we have an appeals process. We have an appeals process because there are no "do-overs" once you kill a man. We have still executed innocent men; therefore, further truncating the appeals process is not the answer, and you can't kill guys cheaper. If you have such a boner for killing these guys, it's going to cost you. Perhaps they should have sold out FedEx Field for the event and put it on pay-per-view to recap the cost of our justice system.

    Oh and plus you can have SUCH a good time watching the execution. Everybody could show up in their MOHAMMUD jerseys from the Bears/Panthers... that would be great... you could sell a lot of beer too...

    Anything medieval-sounding about this to anybody else here?

    PFnV
     
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing for sure,
    Muhammad will never kill again.

    I wonder what they will do with this Ft Hood guy, imagine the taxpayer dollars that are going to be wasted on this dirty terrorist pig, there are probably some ponytailed lawyers right this minute trying to figure out a way to blame Sarah Palin (she drove him crazy)
    HE SHOULD BE BEHEADED, THIS AFTERNOON, ON FOX NEWS.
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Imagine the fun Muhammad had when he was shooting all those people, maybe he was wearing a Bears jersey too. (he'll never kill again thats for sure)
     
  13. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Positively shavian retort, Harry
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'll have to look up "shavian"
     
  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey


    I always come away from these executions with mixed feelings. There seems to be a much wider range of death penalty acceptances out there than simply “having such a boner for it”. It seems that victim’s family members and friends almost always push for the death penalty and are relieved and find closure once the execution takes place. Some no doubt would have had intellectual type discussions on the immorality of the death penalty before one of their loved ones was taken from them. Then you have the deterrent crowd that believes that would be murderers will change their minds because their fear of dying. Then you have the “fry em’” crowds that have no dog in the fight but just like the macho personality they take on in front of their friends. Then of course you have the reckless eye for an eye “boner for it” crowd that maybe would support a pay per view event.

    In the end though, as I sit here in the comfort of my home with no loved one ever having been a victim, I can say I oppose the death penalty, mostly because of the potential of innocent people being executed. If it’s cheaper to incarcerate them instead, great but the monetary cost for execution must not be the decider. What if they came up with a really cheap, legal way to do it? Do I care if a guilty murderer is dead? No, but even if we're better off without the bastard I don't think are morally justified to be the ones that kill him or her. Appologies to those who have lost loved ones. I have not had to feel the pain and suffering you have I give you every benefit of the doubt for your position on the death penalty, whatever it is.
     
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Last night CNN had a special on the execution - the one thing that was striking (to me, at least) was the differencing of opinion by two of the victim's family members. One man, whose sister had been killed, was full of venom - he repeatedly said how glad he was that the sniper was dead and how he had absolutely no pity for him or his family. The other man, one who had lost a brother, was much more subdued and said he'd never witnessed anything like this execution before and he hoped he never would again. He said he felt a great sadness for the sniper's family and that he had long ago forgiven the man himself. He said that his religion taught him that hate only destroys the holder of the hate frmt he inside out and has no effect on the hated.

    No commentary here, I'm of mixed emotion on the death penalty and I have no trouble imagining myself both mother of victim or killer and I understand that my ultimate decision would depend more on who I was and who they were.

    I'm an equal opportunity pity-er.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know you will never believe this but I have always felt sorry for "The Killers Family" I always I put myself in their shoes, no matter what a killer has done somewhere there is a family that loves them, the purpose of the death penalty (TO ME) is not to act as a warning to others not to kill but as assurance that this killer WILL NEVER KILL AGAIN.

    The death penalty should only be carried out against killers who are guilty without doubt such as this Muhammad, Jeffrey Dahmer, McVeigh etc etc and of course the new guy "The Ft Hood Killer"

    If there is a doubt as to a killer being the killer they should not be executed solely on Lawyer Evidence we all know what dirt bags Lawyers are (congress is full of them)
    many innocent people have been executed and the lawyer sleeps like a baby.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  18. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Did you "shavian" this morning? :singing:
     
  19. PatsFanInVa

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    saw the same interview show as MrsPatsFanInVa, and a couple of other things struck me -

    1 - they asked a number of relatives whether they felt a sense of closure, and most of them said they really did not. The one who was full of venom basically said he was glad the guy was dead, but it was more like "he deserved it" than "I need closure." The guy who had forgiven the killer for his own sake, said the event itself filled him with sadness that it had to happen -- that the whole string of events had to happen. He didn't say whether he was pro- or anti- death penalty, he just said it filled him with sadness.

    2 - The venom guy was extremely interesting. The killer's family, through a lawyer, presented a statement full of sympathy for the victim's families, and mentioned, only once and very gracefully, that they too had lost a family member. Venom guy seized on that, and had an absolutely vicious reaction. And I don't begrudge it him. It's an ancient impulse, clan against clan, hatfields and McCoys, Cain and Abel, if they didn't have the same family -- the perp is dead but "they" all must be as denigrated as possible. But if you think about it the killer's family is another casualty... and they don't even have the fig leaf of self-righteousness, of any leg to stand on where their loss is concerned. They can't talk about it, basically.

    2a - He also mentioned that the whole subject makes him emotional as you could understand... his sister died. He made a big impassioned appeal about rather than thinking about what the killer's family lost think about his family, how his sister's kids did not have a mother, how much she had missed out on, all of those things. Then he talked about how he was easy to get mad now, by people who back the death penalty, about gun control...

    The host asked him "about gun control?"

    He said "Yeah, people thinking they need assault rifles to hunt deer..."

    Host: "So you're for gun control?"

    Venom guy: "I am now."

    Like I say, I can't judge venom guy by his reaction. I don't think it would be my own reaction, but I am not in his position.

    But it was fascinating to me how the tragedy being close to him affected his views on gun control, and it was just as fascinating that he urged everybody -- EVERYBODY -- to centralize all sympathetic feelings on what his sister (by extension all the victims) had missed out on, sort of as a prophylactic against feelings for other kinds of victims of the same killer.

    I'm not trying to score a political point on this one, I'm just saying it was interesting to see.

    And venom guy is in a lot of pain, so I don't judge him. I do notice that, although he looked just as he said, very, very sad, "forgiveness guy" seemed at peace. That only means he'd found a way to cope. Venom guy seemed to still be grasping for that, and maybe that does uphold the notion that forgiveness gives peace to the forgiver, and it's not so much for the forgivee.

    PFnV
     
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    None of the dead soldiers or the soldiers around them were allowed to carry guns, isn't that "gun control" they were powerless to "defend themselves, sitting ducks"
     

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