Did Pete Carroll have GM responsibilities when he was w/ the Pats?

[RayClay]

My point is to blame any one person for the debacle of those years is folly...I agree that Grier was terrible, but it was a systemic issue and unfortunately expected... Carroll is a great college coach, and recruits a lot of of talent.. but not every college coach translates into a great NFL coach.

Oh I agree, the entire situation was awful. Carroll didn't have the personality for the east coast and his approach was kind of a joke. Worst of all, though is he was a vitual eunuch who had little say on personnel and reportedly, had a back door complaint department in Bobby Grier, who disgruntled players would go to with their grievance to hopefully bypass the coach and get to the owner, they hoped.

Carrolls rah rah approach, the total lack of control of anything per the owner, and Griers drafting are three things, any of which alone could have derailed the franchise. In concert, it was obvious to the fans this was a losing combination, though Carroll never had a losing record.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Nice guy approachable on the field at Smithfield summer camp. However he does have a dark side.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think all we can say before is that Carroll and Grier both had input into selections - and the end result was less than impressive.

Carroll's major problem in New England was that the veteran players didn't respect him or listen to him.

The Seahawks don't seem to understand that success in the College Game equates to recruiting.

When it comes to recruiting a laid back coach in a laid back area of the country, that has great weather and hot girls, can make all the difference in the world.

None of that is applicable to Carroll as Coach and GM of the Seahawks.

 

[Joker]

I ran a web site called the War Zone back then...Zip had a board...this place was in its infancy and NEPats was our board of choice, the one with the most traffic, while the official site was a total joke.I'm sure you old timers remember. Anyway, I'm STILL scarred from Pete the Cleaner's three year reign of error...and to put things in crystal clear perspective consider this...

his third season as head coach...the 11th game of the season against Cleveland I believe...the 2nd half starts with the Patriots getting the ball....THREE STRAIGHT 12 MEN ON THE FIELD PENALTIES!!!!!! Just unbelievable...and after the game he says in the interview room to the assembled media.."we just have to clean some things up...clean things up.."...hence the nickname Pete The Cleaner.

During this stretch, Booby Grier blew TWENTY NINE of THIRTY ONE straight draft picks...that's TWENTY NINE OUTRIGHT BUSTS post Parcells...who can ever forget the immortal Sedrick Shaw?

yeah ..it was a group effort cluster(censored)...but Pete The Cleaner definitely played the central role as chief clown in THAT circus.

 

[SVN]

here is a interesting article on USC and its so called success.
Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: ESPN drunk behind the wheel of the USC bandwagon

 

[RayClay]

I ran a web site called the War Zone back then...Zip had a board...this place was in its infancy and NEPats was our board of choice, the one with the most traffic, while the official site was a total joke.I'm sure you old timers remember. Anyway, I'm STILL scarred from Pete the Cleaner's three year reign of error...and to put things in crystal clear perspective consider this...

his third season as head coach...the 11th game of the season against Cleveland I believe...the 2nd half starts with the Patriots getting the ball....THREE STRAIGHT 12 MEN ON THE FIELD PENALTIES!!!!!! Just unbelievable...and after the game he says in the interview room to the assembled media.."we just have to clean some things up...clean things up.."...hence the nickname Pete The Cleaner.

During this stretch, Booby Grier blew TWENTY NINE of THIRTY ONE straight draft picks...that's TWENTY NINE OUTRIGHT BUSTS post Parcells...who can ever forget the immortal Sedrick Shaw?

yeah ..it was a group effort cluster(censored)...but Pete The Cleaner definitely played the central role as chief clown in THAT circus.

You do have to factor in that Grier had extra picks too. I'm too lazy, incompetent to check for sure, but it looks like 2 extra firsts and at least one extra second third and fourth for Parcells and Curtis Martins signing compensation.

No doubt carrol was a joke and a mismatch for this town, but we were then what Cleveland is now (I hope, please die Mangini) a job only a desperate coach should take, not one with any brains and balls.

Carrol was an instant eunuch, if he ever had a chance to take control of that team, which he probably didn't.

I'm guessing other coaches saw how Parcells was pre empted, and that Grier was in charge and said thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Steamer86]

I think all we can say before is that Carroll and Grier both had input into selections - and the end result was less than impressive.

Carroll's major problem in New England was that the veteran players didn't respect him or listen to him.

The Seahawks don't seem to understand that success in the College Game equates to recruiting.

When it comes to recruiting a laid back coach in a laid back area of the country, that has great weather and hot girls, can make all the difference in the world.

None of that is applicable to Carroll as Coach and GM of the Seahawks.

I don't think "we can all say that Carroll and Grier both had input into selections"...I don't think Carroll had any real input. If we basically ran Parcells off by not letting him pick his LB/DE instead of Terry Glenn, I don't think we would have given Carroll input in the next couple drafts....

 

[Steamer86]

Bobby Grier made the personnel decisions, but Carroll defenders use that to deflect blame away from the poor coaching job Carroll did.

Fact of the matter is the core of the Patriots defense during the Super Bowl years were here under Carroll. Think of some of the biggest names on this team in 2001, 2003, and 2004 and a large number of them were drafted in the Parcells era. You have Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy (at least in 2001), Tedy Bruschi, and Ted Johnson. Some of the other key players like Damien Woody, Tebucky Jones (at least in 2001), and Kevin Faulk were from the Grier/Carroll era. Personnel wasn't the only problem in the late 90s.

Carroll coached scare and not to lose rather to win. That was his problem here. Grier could have been a great talent evaluator and I still question if Carroll could have coached an elite team. His rah! rah! style did not work with the players (and looking at guys like Herm Edwards, just doesn't work in the NFL). I have never seen a coach consistently rather to take a knee before halftime with enough time to mount a drive to at least try for 3 than Pete Carroll.

Maybe Carroll has grown as a coach and will not make the same mistakes the second time around. But if he hasn't, the Seahawks are set up for failure already. The Pete Carroll who coached the Pats in the late 90s will fail in Seattle this decade even if he gets to shop for his own groceries.

BB didn't win his first year and a half either with this talent...this team was going nowhere with Bledsoe at that time. He had peaked early in career and was quickly turning into the turnover/sack machine that continuously sucked life out of team by late 90s....

 

[klinefan]

Pete Carrol lived in a small Norman Rockwell-ish hamlet called Medfield-o when he was up in New England. He donated a lot of stuff to the local high school and is still highly though of there.

Just though I'd throw that bit of irrelevency in there.

I recommend that Brady-o move to a hamlet like that in stead of Newton which isn't that close to Foxborough.

 

[Rob0729]

BB didn't win his first year and a half either with this talent...this team was going nowhere with Bledsoe at that time. He had peaked early in career and was quickly turning into the turnover/sack machine that continuously sucked life out of team by late 90s....

My point was that there was still a lot of talent. But also, Crennel didn't get here until 2001 and he turned around the careers of McGinest and Law (Law was quickly becoming a plaer who who was perceived as getting his big contract and getting lazy).

Belichick was installing a new system in 2000. Most coaches their first year have a transition period.

I think you could win with Bledsoe, but Bledsoe was not suited for the Pats' system. Bledsoe did have a Pro Bowl year his first year in Buffalo.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't think "we can all say that Carroll and Grier both had input into selections"...I don't think Carroll had any real input. If we basically ran Parcells off by not letting him pick his LB/DE instead of Terry Glenn, I don't think we would have given Carroll input in the next couple drafts....

That's rediculous. A Coach always has input.

Parcells wanted full and complete control.

That wasn't given to him and it wasn't given to Carrol.

But suggesting that Carroll had no input is the same as saying Parcells had no input. It's just completely rediculous.

 

[florazona]

Carrol lobbied hard for Andy Katz.

now i can read the sigs

 

[zeke mowatt]

Carroll was an excellent defensive coach. The pats of his era were derailed by a myriad of issues as has been stated.

One of those issues that was huge was the injury of Robert Edwards who would have been a good one. Pats had nothing resembling a running game for the final two seasons of Pete's tenure.