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Did I see a different 2007 season

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Sivy, Jan 3, 2008.

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  1. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Ok, I keep going to colts forums to see what they have to say about Manning losin his record, and all i hear is the exsuse that he had his record in 15 games, and it took Brady 16....Now maybe im crazy but, I swear Brady was out for most of the 4th quarter, and some of the 3rd in ALOT of games this year.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If you look up the seasons, Brady did throw more passes and have a lower TD% than Manning's 2004.

    However . . . Brady also had a lower INT% and, more importantly, had many more outdoor/bad weather games which fully mitigates the TD% IMO. However, the facts are such that the opposite can, at least, be argued.
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Here is the comparison:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

    Brady had the following:
    398 completions (68.9 comp %), 578 attempts, 4806 yards, 50 TDs (8.7 TD%), 8 Ints (1.4Int%),8.3 yards per attempt, 21 sacks

    Manning:
    336 completions (67.6 Comp %), 497 attempts, 4267 yards, 49 TDs (9.9 TD%), 10 ints (2.0 Int %), 9.2 yards per attempt, 13 sacks.

    Brady had 62 more completions on 81 more attempts for 539 yards. But Manning got more yards per attempt and had less attempts per TD.
  4. pheenix11

    pheenix11 Rookie

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    I'm sorry, did I miss the strike in 2004? Did they only play 15 games?

    The neverending pile of BS that emerges from Colts Nation is astounding.
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    How is it BS to point out that Manning played all of 1 series in the 2004 finale against Denver and that he was 1 for 2 for 6 yards before making way to Jim Sorgi?
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    There were only 4 games that Manning came out early in 2004. Chicago, Detroit, Tennessee, and Denver.

    Sorgi handed the ball off 11 times against Chicago then took 3 kneel downs.
    Against Detroit, Sorgi took over with 1:15 remaining in the 3rd. He attempted only 3 passes.

    Against Tennessee, Manning stayed in to finish the drive that put the Colts up 48 to 24 against the Titans. Sorgi took over the hand-off duties from there.

    And, against Denver, Manning played 1 series.


    Brady came out "early" 8 times (1st Jets game, San Diego 1st Buffalo game, Cincy, 1st Miami game, Washington, 2nd buffalo game and the 2nd Miami game). However, at no time did Brady come out prior to the 4th quarter.
  7. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    did he start the game?


    alright then
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey


    So he started the game, played 1 series and left. That doesn't take away from the fact that, when you look at how many minutes Manning didn't play, Manning actually accomplished his feat in less playing time. Especially when you consider that Brady never came out prior to the 4th quarter (and most of the time not until there was under 5 minutes left).

    I mean, if you want to be really anal, we can look up exactly what the time of possession of each of the Colts games, subtract out the time Manning wasn't in the games and compare it to the time of possession for the each of the Pats games with the time Brady wasn't in the games to figure out how many minutes, exactly, each one played.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  9. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle ( o Y o ) PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorgi and the other guy threw like 34 passes in 2004.

    Tom threw 5 more passes a game than Manning and I'm sure he'd trade them all to have played 11 out of 16 games in a dome like Manning did.

    It doesn't matter though, as long as people are mentioning Tom and Peyton in the same breath I'm happy. It's impossible to use stats to make one better than the other. Pats fans are thrilled to have Tom and would prefer him to Peyton and I'm sure the opposite is true for the Colts fans and really that's all that matters when it comes to something as subjective as this.

    (Tom also would have liked to have spent his career throwing to Marvin Harrison and Stokely and Wayne and Clark instead of Patten and Caldwell and Gabriel and Givens but I digress.)
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    To me, records are records regardless of circumstances. Like another poster wrote, Brady played in a lot more bad weather games than Manning did in 2004. Just like Moss' record 23 TD's and people saying it's not really as good as Rice's 22 TD's in 12 games...NOPE, sorry folks! 23 is the record now no if's, and's or but's.

    A record is a record...period.
  11. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    On this, I agree.

    Its why if the Patriots go 17-0 it will be as good a mark as the '72 phins.
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Nice try to attempt to fit that logic into my statement, but it doesn't fit. 19-0 is better than 17-0 every time last I checked. Just like 23 TD receptions is better than 22.

    Are you trying to say undefeated is undefeated? Like 6-0 is as good as 21-0? I don't think so my friend. You been hangin' with Mercury too much!
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  13. indycolts685

    indycolts685 Rookie

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    Brady had 50 TD Passes and Manning had 49 thats the only thing that matters. They don't have records for 15 games or 16 games, its the season record and he earned it. I posted in another thread that Brady's record is more impressive because of all the outdoor games Brady played in, in fact Brady pretty well had one game taken away from him(although he played the whole game) against the Jets? anyway the weather was so bad that Brady wasn't able to get a single TD pass, I don't think anybody would have that day. Anyway I don't see Manning getting anywhere near that record ever again, as we don't have that quick stripe type of offense that we had in 2004, and I am perfectly happy with that as long as we keep winning games. I am sure Pats fans would feel the same way.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    I think 99.9% of all fans would rather have their team win than get records. It just so happens that Colts & Pats fan are fortunate enough to have gotten both!
  15. indycolts685

    indycolts685 Rookie

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    yeah exactly, just win games and if records fall then records fall...
  16. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    I think this is an easy debate in which there are some main points that both sides can or at least should agree on......

    1.) Manning most likely would have had 50+ TDs if he had played the entire last game in Denver.
    2.) Brady, even though he played in more games, still holds the record of 50 TD passes. It is not Tom's fault that Manning only played 15 games.

    THere will be no asterisk next to this record.
  17. SpiderFox53

    SpiderFox53 Rookie

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    I believe that if you reread what he wrote, you will see that what he is saying is that if the Pats win thier first playoff game, they will have equaled what the the Phins did in 72.
  18. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Its clear that you didn't comprehend what I said. Maybe because you attempted to read more into it than was there?

    The '72 Dolphins only went 17-0. Should the Patriots win next week, they will be 17-0. Equaling the '72 Dolphins.

    Should the Pats go 19-0, yes, they will be better than the Dolphins. And no where did I say otherwise.

    I think that its YOU who have been hanging with Mercury Morris too long because you can't understand when someone says 17-0 = 17-0.
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Give the man a cigar. Glad to see you over here Spider. You were one of the few ESPN posters that regularly brought intelligence with them.
  20. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Rookie

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    1. Manning had a 1500+yd rusher in Edge that year to help keep defenses honest.
    1a. Yet, somehow, Manning, presumably calling his own plays, only saw fit to get Edge into the endzone 9 times rushing.
    1b. The Colt's team had only 10 rushing td's all season. The Pats as a team had 17.

    2. The Pats broke the NFL scoring record for a team, while having the fewest offensive possessions in the league. If you want to talk td's per attempt, how about looking at it from this perspective.

    3. Peyton Manning played 1 game in bad weather. That is, if you call 40*+ in Chicago in November bad weather.
    Brady, after the 11/4 Indy game played all his Nov/Dec games outdoors in cold weather cities like Foxboro, Baltimore, NY.

    #3 is so important, it's not even funny. Remember how may passes were inexplicably dropped by guys once they started playing in bad weather? Watson, Welker, Stallworth & Moss were all guilty of dropping catchable passes.
    If you look at Brady's #'s before the weather got bad, he was playing Madden '08, and on pace for like 60 td's.

    At the end of the day, 50>49 and on top of that, Brady led in the most important stat of all.... wins!
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