Did Denver inadvertendly screw the Pats on Cassel trade value

[maverick4]

Who cares? Tampa had a vested interest in making sure that Denver won the bidding for Cassel's rights. So the Broncos did the Pats a favor by making the Bucs a more motivated bidder because they would get what they perceived as a better QB by providing the draft pick to pry Cassel from the Patriots. In theory, it increases their willingness to give up a first rounder to win the bidding for Cassel.

BTW, would there been a difference if Cassel was traded today rather than yesterday? Did the Pats make any moves that couldn't have waited until tomorrow. Let's not go overboard on how the Broncos "screwed" the Pats on the Cassel trade.

You really are clueless. Vrabel's bonus was due 3/1. Without dealing Cassel the Pats would currently be over the cap. It must kill you that it just so happened that Denver fumbled the situation and now their star QB wants out, and it happens to involve your favorite coordinator ever.

Your analysis makes no sense at all. Tampa getting interested in Cutler in no way increases a bid for Cassel. It merely reduces bidders for Cassel and Denver does not improve their bid for Cassel. All it does it hurt the Pats in this process, who have to wait on Denver all the while receiving less bids on Cassel.

 

[maverick4]

The bidders of car B are now motivated in their bids to make sure that their "guy" in the bidding for car A wins the bidding or they don't get car B.

Yet more distorted logic. The owner of car B does not change his bid for car A just because people are in a bidding war for his own car.

By entertaining offers, the owner of car B becomes another bottleneck in the bidding process for car A. In our case it dramatically altered who received car A because the owner of car A had major timing issues, and car B diverted offers that otherwise would have gone to car A

 

[spacecrime]

The sad thing is . . . that may be exactly what went through Childress' mind.

I am still flabbergasted that he is willing to have Sage Rosenfells and Tavares Jackson compete for the starting job. It's so stupid. They have all the pieces except a quality QB, and they have plenty of money. And the best they can hope is that Rosenfells beats out Jackson so they can start a crappy QB instead of a really crappy QB.

I just don't understand.

 

[spacecrime]

The point is that the teams that would have been interested in making an offer for Cassel did not make offers to the Pats when they thought Denver was open to dealing Cutler.

That's weak. Denver trading Cutler in a three-team deal only means that this hypotetical team knows it won't get either Cassel or Cutler unless it is one of the trading partners, which means it would be active in the hunt for Cassel and drive the price UP not DOWN.

 

[spacecrime]

Mav's just looking for something else to blame his whipping boy McKid for now that he's not running the offense here. It was Tampa who initiated the 3 way trade talk, and certainly not with Josh as he's a rookie HC on a team with a GM and with Shanny gone a very involved owner. Apparently it was never a very real possibility either but that's been pointed out to Mav on his other anti Josh thread over in the NFL forum...

This brings up the excellent point that even though we only got a second for Cassel, we are a much better team because Josh is gone. Hadn't looked at it that way.

Probaby Cassel nixed the Denver trade. He seems like a smart guy, and knows better than we do how Josh's play-calling was stiff and predictable.

 

[Rob0729]

You really are clueless. Vrabel's bonus was due 3/1. Without dealing Cassel the Pats would currently be over the cap. It must kill you that it just so happened that Denver fumbled the situation and now their star QB wants out, and it happens to involve your favorite coordinator ever.

Your analysis makes no sense at all. Tampa getting interested in Cutler in no way increases a bid for Cassel. It merely reduces bidders for Cassel and Denver does not improve their bid for Cassel. All it does it hurt the Pats in this process, who have to wait on Denver all the while receiving less bids on Cassel.

I could care less about what goes on in Denver. I just think it is stupid to blame McDaniels for what the Pats got for Cassel. Personally, I hope the Broncos are a mess next year. It would suck for McDaniels, but it might be to the Pats' advantage. Now that McDaniels is no longer with the Pats, I don't care what happens to his team. I hope he has some personal success, but I hate the Broncos and hope they are a sub-.500 tea,/

If you are too slow to understand that the Bucs had a vested interest in the Broncos getting Cassel, I guess you might as just let you try to blame McDaniels for everything that goes wrong with the Patriots in perpitude. Why would the Bucs care where Cassel went because now that he is off the market, they can go after Cutler.... No wait. Cutler is off the market because him being traded depended on the Broncos getting Cassel. But why would the Bucs care about that?

BTW, most reports I heard had Detriot interested in a direct trade for Cassel.

 

[maverick4]

That's weak. Denver trading Cutler in a three-team deal only means that this hypotetical team knows it won't get either Cassel or Cutler unless it is one of the trading partners, which means it would be active in the hunt for Cassel and drive the price UP not DOWN.

That makes no sense. If I'm Tampa and I want Cutler, it benefits me if Denver gets a good deal for Cassel thus making them able to unload Cutler. Why would I drive up the price for Cassel, making it hard for Denver to get him? This whole thing with Denver created a bottleneck where NE had to wait for Denver to decide things, meanwhile reducing incentives for other teams to drive up bidding on Cassel.


By the way, in response to your most recent comment, you're about to be blasted by all the McKid lovers on this board who think the guy can do no wrong.

 

[Rob0729]

That's weak. Denver trading Cutler in a three-team deal only means that this hypotetical team knows it won't get either Cassel or Cutler unless it is one of the trading partners, which means it would be active in the hunt for Cassel and drive the price UP not DOWN.

What? maverick4 manufacturing a weak argument to bash Josh McDaniels? Never happen.

Don't even try bringing the logic that the teams trading for Cutler have a vested interest in making sure the Broncos got Cassel because that will fall on deaf ears.

 

[spacecrime]

the Patriots in perpitude.

Did the Pats move? I thought they were going to stay in Foxboro for a long time. Where is Perpitude? Is that in California near LA? I heard the NFL was sending a team there, but I didnt thnk it would be the Pats!

 

[maverick4]

Don't even try bringing the logic that the teams trading for Cutler have a vested interest in making sure the Broncos got Cassel because that will fall on deaf ears.

You just directly contradicted spacecrime's point that Tampa would want to drive up the bidding on Cassel. If Tampa wanted Cutler they would not drive up bidding on Cassel, to help Denver get Cassel.

Denver basically came in and inadvertently screwed the Pats on this one.

 

[Frezo]

This is only true if Cassel was driving car A. Unfortunately Cutler was driving car A and Belichick was driving car B. Belichick rear ended Cutler. When officer Pioli showed up everyone threw their hands in the air and said f*** it.

 

[maverick4]

Don't even try bringing the logic that the teams trading for Cutler have a vested interest in making sure the Broncos got Cassel because that will fall on deaf ears.

Not only did you just directly contradict spacecrime's point, but you also just contradicted YOUR OWN point in your foolishness to defend McKid.

You tried to claim multiple times that Tampa would want to bid higher on Cassel, but then just admitted that they wouldn't want to bid against Denver to make it hard for them to get Cassel. Meanwhile, Denver couldn't make a decision and Belichick had time pressure so pulled the trigger on his best offer, which was influenced by Denver since other teams didn't want to raise the bidding on Cassel with the possibility that Denver wanted Cassel so they could get Cutler.

 

[Rob0729]

You just directly contradicted spacecrime's point that Tampa would want to drive up the bidding on Cassel. If Tampa wanted Cutler they would not drive up bidding on Cassel, to help Denver get Cassel.

Denver basically came in and inadvertently screwed the Pats on this one.

The more that Tampa drives up their price for Cutler, the more that the Broncos can offer for Cassel. Tampa was bidding on Cassel, not Cutler because the Broncos were basically trading Cutler for Cassel with Tampa providing the compensation to the Patriots for Cassel. The Bucs wanted to offer the Patriots the most they could so that the Broncos would ship Cutler to them after the Pats sent Cassel to Denver.

 

[BPF]

Re: Did Denver Inadvertendly Screw the Pats' on Cassel Trade Value

Regardless of the impact on the market for Cassel, it is costing McDaniels pretty heavily in PR.

Fire Josh McDaniels webpage

More problems for McDaniels: Denver Broncos embattled WR Brandon Marshall arrested again - ESPN

 

[smg93]

Frankly, Pioli knew that at some point or another, we were going to trade Matt to get his cap number off our books. Perhaps this Denver/Tampa/NE trade actually made Pioli even more interested to do this deal now rather than wait it out and hope that NE would be willing to take even less than the #34 pick that was offered to them.

Who knows what would have happened if Matt was still on the trading block weeks from now and everyone knew at that point that we were desperately trying to get rid of his salary from our cap. Those offers for draft pick(s) could have actually gotten worse than the #34. Maybe that's what Pioli was counting on but this Denver/Tampa scenario moved up his timetable and instead of being on the fence between offering a lower pick or the #34, Pioli decided to close this deal now to make sure he got the QB he wanted.

 

[maverick4]

I hate that Felger just wrote an article about this, hate that guy even though I agree with him in this case

 

[maverick4]

The more that Tampa drives up their price for Cutler, the more that the Broncos can offer for Cassel. Tampa was bidding on Cassel, not Cutler because the Broncos were basically trading Cutler for Cassel with Tampa providing the compensation to the Patriots for Cassel. The Bucs wanted to offer the Patriots the most they could so that the Broncos would ship Cutler to them after the Pats sent Cassel to Denver.

Sorry, but no, it makes no sense for the Bucs to bid up Cassel. The Broncos have no incentive to up their offer against no other bidders. Tampa and Detroit weren't going to bid up Cassel in order to hurt Denver's chances. NE had to wait on Denver all the way up to their final deadline before they had to unload Vrabel and avoid paying his bonus.