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Did a McCain prank kill 134 soldiers?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While the right is busy vetting Obama's relationship with Ayers, the left is starting to take another look at McCain's very questionable military record (losing 4 planes, flying 20 hours of combat, getting caught). Wonder if the MSM will give this story as much cover as it has given Ayers?

    CQ Politics | McCain Camp Ignores Questions About Candidate?s Military Record

    The Rolling Stone piece, “Make Believe Maverick,” by Tim Dickinson, likewise calls into question McCain’s military legend.

    It portrays him running from his burning jet on the Forrestal’s deck and virtually hiding in the carrier’s ward room while others died fighting the ferocious fire and exploding ordnance. In all, 134 soldiers died in the tragedy.

    ...

    According to these accounts, McCain, whose A4-E Skyhawk was queued up in a line of jets waiting to take off, “wet started” his engine, a prank designed to startle a trailing pilot with a flame of exploding kerosene.

    Here's the Rolling Stone piece:

    Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I posted the stuff about the forrestall about a month ago, the folks of the right dismissed it.. I think you mean sailors.. the records of this were not released by the Navy.. so speculation will ensue..

    RockCreekFreePress Articles

  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    This has already been discussed ... aren't moderators suppose to merge threads that are repeats of old threads. Also ... this has already been debunked as McCain's planes engine was facing out to sea at the time of the incident.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The old thread WAS Patters' thread. He is an absolute stupid joke of a Moderator. Step down, please, Patters. You continue to embarrass yourself.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No it was my post..
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the Stones article raises many new questions, and I do think I've posted specifically about this incident. True, I have mentioned that McCain destroyed 3 planes through apparent carelessness, but this prank business, as GJAJ pointed out, hasn't been posted in awhile.

    When the righties top with the distortions about Obama and Ayers, perhaps it will be time to stop with the stories about McCain's rather miserable military record and the rumors about him.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You are Patters aren't you ? Regardless (and I apologize for my error) Patters posted in the thread and needs to quit this crap.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BF, while I understand you don't want your candidate attacked, try to man enough as the Obama supporters are who regularly put up with lies about Obama's relationship with ACORN, Ayers, and others. Of course, you perhaps think those charges against Obama are true, and I think they're no more legitimate than the accusations against McCain. Stop trying to censor threads because you don't agree with them. You'd be on stronger grounds if you condemned threads as unfair on both sides; otherwise, you're just being partisan in an obvious way.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    That is childish
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    They are and there is ample evidence of it. If you want to argue that those relationships are old and moot, great, but they are actual, real relationships as opposed to this crap.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, I feel the same way about McCain's military record -- losing 3 planes, lying about how he lost at least one of them, possibly involved in a "prank" that killed 134 soldiers, flying 20 hours of combat, getting caught, making propaganda tapes for the Vietnamese, signing a confession, and offering military secrets in exchange for hospitalization. And add to that, committing adultery on his wife, helping out Keating, joining a right-wing organization that included Nazi sympathizers, and so on. There's at least as much proof about McCain's military record as there is that Obama had a close relationship with Ayers. In fact, Obama's relationshp with Ayers was marginal at best, and was related only to educational reform, on which Ayers was supported by businesspeople, Republicans, and others. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People who have never served in the military have no business criticizing those who have. Many planes crashed at that time ... that is fact.

    People who have never been tortured have no business criticizing those who have.

    Then again many on the left have no respect for the military ... we know this.

    The rest is fair game IMO although McCain was cleared on the Keating stuff. John McCain served his country and Obama has not. No more needs to be said on that topic. One thing I am sure of however is that John McCain does not currently support extreme Islamic nuts as in Odinga like Obama has. John McCain has made mistakes in his life ... Obama continues to make them as the Odinga fiasco recently shows. Obama supports people who hate America ... John McCain does not.
  14. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    That post is not replyable to. You are a horrible, horrible person.
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    1. The military is not some magical cloak of arrogance that indemnifies anybody from the consequences of their actions. Americans have every right to question individuals in positions of public trust in the government, whether or not they are government employees. The same is true of the military.

    2. As was the case with Kerry, there are many who served in the military openly critical of McCain. Some simply recall incidents while serving with McCain. They do not do this because they don't want people discussing it. They understand the stakes. So do all of us. Why are you dishonoring the service of those soldiers and sailors?

    3. Most on the left, including many who served in the military, have plenty of respect for the military. If it's possible that a prank took out 130 sailors, then yes, "respect" for them would be to give the details a public hearing.

    4. From the beginning, McCain drafted Bud "Swift Boat" Day, specifically to anticipate and answer "Swift Boat"-like attacks on him. Just because the "mainstream media" (i.e., the right-wing leaning coverage on the real networks, and the talking-point memo that is Fox,) plays ball when it's done from the right wing (2004,) but not the left (2008,) shouldn't make you bristle. The incidents still happened. McCain has shown inventiveness in embellishing his war record (i.e., the "cross in the dirt" story that evidently kept happening to people in communist captivity...) and I don't see him as above all reproach if there is a story there. Evidently, this one has legs.

    Well, I just saw this story for the first time.

    Why don't you tell me how it's "debunked"?

    PFnV
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your reasoning is torture. Does that count? ;)

    Frankly, your point is absurd. The fact that McCain was a victim and survivor is relevant to a point, but not to the point of making him commander in chief. His record needs to be looked at honestly.

    That's a matter of perception. Our lack of respect, if any, is for the military and political policies that lead us astray.

    Obama has certainly served our country, by helping steel workers and poor people, by teaching, by working as a State Senator, by working as a US Senator, and by getting tens of thousands of people involved in the election. While it's true that soldiers service, their are millions of other who provide service to our nation in other ways. Why did you support Hillary if you think she didn't serve our nation?

    No, McCain supports people who hate America, people who imply that Americans who share Obama's views are terrorists, are communists, or even should be killed. When Wright said, God damn America, he was referring to that America that is quick to say that anyone who questions the military, fights racism, opposes poverty, and objects to bigotry is unAmerican. He was saying, FBN, god damn to your America, your narrow America that says the only service is military service and that liberals can be unAmerican, but not conservatives. It's your America that may be coming to a close, and I think it's causing many people with your views to become a little unhinged.
  17. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Factcheck.org


    Q: Did McCain crash five planes? Did he cause the 1967 Forrestal fire?
    A: No. Chain e-mails and Internet postings that make that claim are mistaken. And the Navy commended his piloting skills.


    This was brought up so many times in previous McCain campaigns. It was false then and surprise it still is.
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    Welp, Factcheck seems to say "no." There seems to be pretty good support that McCain did not personally take an aircraft carrier out of commission and cause the deaths of 134 sailors. He did have a little problem over Spain, and from the looks of the rate at which he lost aircraft, it seems very weird how smoothly his career went. There are also noted gaps between official investigations and his own recollections (and those of his approved biographer.) And he does himself note "pranking" over Spain, though all he did was take out a few power lines.

    So, the official military notes on the subject seem to say McCain did not blow up the USS Forrestal by being a dumba$$.

    Thanks for the link.

    PFnV
  19. patsfan13

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    Sp {atters how bout telling us about your service and the sacrifices YOU made. My enlistment was pretty never served in a combat area, my orders to Pleiku were cancelled in 73. How bout yours?


    I was happy when the bomb Ayers design blew up during assembly killing some of his terrorist comrades. They were planning to bomb a dance for military personel in NJ. Pretty sick huh.


    Imagine if a pubbie candidate hung out with a guy like T MCVeigh. That would be outrageous don't you think?


    Guess you are OK with terror and murder al long as they terrorist are fellow travellers eh,,,
  20. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I saw video of this as it happened. A zunni 2.75 inch rocket mis-fired from another plan and struck McCains. His plane was engulfed in fire.From watching the video(HX Channel) it was a miracal he got out alive. The whole plane and deck were in flames 1000lb.bombs and zunni rockets started cooking off blowing holes in the deck, and starting other jets on fire. I wouln't doubt after coming so close to being either burned alive or blown up that he hide somewhere from tramatic shock.

    PATTERS your pretty good at this stuff maybe you can get a job with the RNC. :p
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008

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