Dice K the most boring pitcher in MLB

[frankiesfly]

This is so ridiculous. I can't believe this is even a discussion.

Look at his body of work. He's gotten tattooed in a couple of starts, he's been average in several, he's been very good in a bunch, and he's been great in just as many.

The frickin' guy is 12-7 with a 3.79 ERA, and a 136:49 K:BB ratio in 137 innings. He's lost two games in which he gave up 3 earned runs, two games when he gave up 2, and a game when he gave up one damn earned run. He's eight offensive runs away from being 15-4. As a rookie.

I'll take that kind of down all season, every season.

Thanks for those stats you proved my point that he's not that good. His ERA is 18th in the American league. With 7 losses and a ERA on the high side makes him not that good. An average pitcher.

 

[Foley]

Are you sure he is still worth 50 million dollars just to tak to? Thats why I'm going to analyze him, and critisize him. You guys are the ones who wanted to go and dish out all this ridiculous money for a number 2 pitcher.

It may be ridiculous, but its market value. Can you honestly say you would rather have Barry Zito at 7/$126, or Kei Igawa at 5/$46, or Miguel Batista at 3/$25, or pretty much any other pitcher signed to a big contract this offseason? Matsuzaka at 6/$103 may look like an absurd amount of money, but its a pretty fair contract for the market.

His ERA is 18th in the American league. With 7 losses and a ERA on the high side makes him not that good. An average pitcher.

A 3.79ERA is not average. The league average ERA right now is 4.49, giving Matsuzaka a 118ERA+. For comparison, Josh Beckett has a 132ERA+. Both Brandon Webb and Johan Santana have 8 losses. Are the reigning Cy Young winners average? Judging a pitcher by his W-L record is preposterous. Calling a 3.79ERA in the AL average is just as bad.

Criticizing him for only succeeding because of the league adjusting to him is one thing, but claiming his current stats are average is just ignorant.

 

[Fixit]

Thanks for those stats you proved my point that he's not that good. His ERA is 18th in the American league. With 7 losses and a ERA on the high side makes him not that good. An average pitcher.

Anyone who follows baseball knows that ERA is an overrated stat. A few bad starts out of 30 can raise a guy's ERA for the season and not be an indicator of how well he's pitched overall. The statheads point to K:BB ratio as one of the best indicators of a pitcher's effectiveness, and Daisuke's is very good.

Any team in baseball would kill to have three pitchers as "average" as Daisuke on their staff, because they'd know that they'd most likely be playing deep into October.

You should stop talking, because it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't like the guy? Fine. Saying he's not that good? ******ed.

 

[frankiesfly]

It may be ridiculous, but its market value. Can you honestly say you would rather have Barry Zito at 7/$126, or Kei Igawa at 5/$46, or Miguel Batista at 3/$25, or pretty much any other pitcher signed to a big contract this offseason? Matsuzaka at 6/$103 may look like an absurd amount of money, but its a pretty fair contract for the market.
A 3.79ERA is not average. The league average ERA right now is 4.49, giving Matsuzaka a 118ERA+. For comparison, Josh Beckett has a 132ERA+. Both Brandon Webb and Johan Santana have 8 losses. Are the reigning Cy Young winners average? Judging a pitcher by his W-L record is preposterous. Calling a 3.79ERA in the AL average is just as bad.

Criticizing him for only succeeding because of the league adjusting to him is one thing, but claiming his current stats are average is just ignorant.

Barry Zito might be the biggest joke in MLB right now. Igawa? Is he even still in majors? Bautista? Of course I would rather have Dice K over those pitchers, but i wouldn't take Dice K over many others. I would still take Webb or Santana over Dice K in a heart beat. Instead of talking about bad pitchers getting a great deal, won't we talk about great pitchers who deserve a deal that are better than Dice K. For one if you want to talk rookie pitchers there are 3 other pitchers in the league I'd rather have. I'd rather have Guthrie, Lincecum, or Guillardo. If you combine those pitchers salaries you don't even come close to the money Dice K is getting. Dice K got the hype like he was some Mr. Cy young guy, and he's not. Thats the bottom lin here is that he's not that good(considering the hype, and the money he gets) I will gaurantee that one of those pitchers I mentioned will win a Cy Young befpre Dice K.

 

[Fixit]

I will gaurantee that one of those pitchers I mentioned will win a Cy Young befpre Dice K.

Okay. Guarantee it, then. What do we get if they don't win a Cy before Daisuke? After all, that is the point of a guarantee.

 

[Foley]

Barry Zito might be the biggest joke in MLB right now. Igawa? Is he even still in majors? Bautista? Of course I would rather have Dice K over those pitchers, but i wouldn't take Dice K over many others. I would still take Webb or Santana over Dice K in a heart beat. Instead of talking about bad pitchers getting a great deal, won't we talk about great pitchers who deserve a deal that are better than Dice K. For one if you want to talk rookie pitchers there are 3 other pitchers in the league I'd rather have. I'd rather have Guthrie, Lincecum, or Guillardo. If you combine those pitchers salaries you don't even come close to the money Dice K is getting. Dice K got the hype like he was some Mr. Cy young guy, and he's not. Thats the bottom lin here is that he's not that good(considering the hype, and the money he gets) I will gaurantee that one of those pitchers I mentioned will win a Cy Young befpre Dice K.

I'm not talking about bad pitchers getting a great deal, I'm talking about pitchers who got deals this past offseason.

I'd certainly rather have Webb or Santana over Matsuzaka and not a lot of people would disagree with that. But they weren't available. The rookies you mentioned? Also not available. Given the market that he was signed in Matsuzaka was not overpaid. Barring blockbuster trades, signing Matsuzaka was the best thing that any team could have done to improve their pitching rotation this past offseason. If you can provide evidence to the contrary and find one starter who was signed this offseason that you would rather have on your team than Matsuzaka please do.

And not that I believe he is a bust, but it takes more than a season to make that decision. A year ago trading for Beckett and not resigning Damon looked like bad moves, now they look pretty good. Two years ago not resigning Pedro looked like a terrible move, now it looks pretty good. Half a season of play is not enough time to make a rational argument that a move was terrible or a player sucks.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Barry Zito might be the biggest joke in MLB right now. Igawa? Is he even still in majors? Bautista? Of course I would rather have Dice K over those pitchers, but i wouldn't take Dice K over many others. I would still take Webb or Santana over Dice K in a heart beat. Instead of talking about bad pitchers getting a great deal, won't we talk about great pitchers who deserve a deal that are better than Dice K. For one if you want to talk rookie pitchers there are 3 other pitchers in the league I'd rather have. I'd rather have Guthrie, Lincecum, or Guillardo. If you combine those pitchers salaries you don't even come close to the money Dice K is getting. Dice K got the hype like he was some Mr. Cy young guy, and he's not. Thats the bottom lin here is that he's not that good(considering the hype, and the money he gets) I will gaurantee that one of those pitchers I mentioned will win a Cy Young befpre Dice K.

The reason the other guys are good examples and the examples you gave are horrible is availability. Yes, I'd rather have the reigning Cy Young winners (Santana won the Cy last year. Pedro won the MVP in '99. When the sports writers prove themselves ******s our only recourse is to ignore their decisions) over Daisuke (and just about any other pitcher. standards a little tough, don't you think?). Is either available? Is Guthrie, Gallardo, or Lincecum available?

Actually, I'd take Daisuke over any other rookie because he's 26 and has proven he can pitch a ton of innings without his arm falling off. Out of Guthrie, Gallardo, and Lincecum at least one of them is pretty much guaranteed to be taken down by injuries. There is a high attrition rate with young pitchers, and Daisuke is further along in that battle than the rookies you mentioned.

As for you passing judgment on Daisuke, that's silly. He is a little over half a year into a 6 year deal. His prime is ahead of him, and he's still adjusting to American baseball. The fact that you bought the hype that he'd be Pedro and are disappointed reflects poorly on you, not him.

 

[maverick4]

why are we still discussing this?
frankiesfly has a problem with colored people, that explains everything.

 

[frankiesfly]

Kason Gabbard 4-0 2.96 ERA. You could of spent the money to get a real second baseman.

 

[Fixit]

Kason Gabbard 4-0 2.96 ERA. You could of spent the money to get a real second baseman.

Now I know you're either a complete idiot or a total joker. Either way, shut it.

 

[sdaniels7114]

The statheads point to K:BB ratio as one of the best indicators of a pitcher's effectiveness, and Daisuke's is very good.

What makes that stat less skewed by occasional bad innings/starts than ERA? I'd think it would be affected equally.

Just curious...

and interested in getting some value out of this goofy thread.

 

[frankiesfly]

Now I know you're either a complete idiot or a total joker. Either way, shut it.

LMAO. I thought you might like that one. Hey man i tried to stop this thread. I didn't write anything on this thread for over a week and you kept it going. I won't write anything more until Dice K gets slapped around by Tampa Bay.



P.S Gabbard is now 5-0

 

[Foley]

How does Gabbard pitching well have anything to do with Matsuzaka?

ed: And nice call on him going 5-0.

 

[Fixit]

LMAO. I thought you might like that one. Hey man i tried to stop this thread. I didn't write anything on this thread for over a week and you kept it going. I won't write anything more until Dice K gets slapped around by Tampa Bay.



P.S Gabbard is now 5-0

Uh, he's 4-0, Mr. Baseball. He only pitched 4 2/3 innings last night, so Tavarez got the win. Also, Gabbard got rocked, and his ERA is now only .06 lower than Daisuke's, so I guess Gabbard sucks now, too.

 

[Fixit]

What makes that stat less skewed by occasional bad innings/starts than ERA? I'd think it would be affected equally.

Just curious...

and interested in getting some value out of this goofy thread.

Hey, I'm not a huge stat guy, either. They tell most of the story, but not all of it.

To answer your question, if a pitcher gives up a half-dozen innings of five runs or more in a season (just throwing numbers out there), that will go a long way towards wrecking his ERA for that season. His ERA for every other start could be 3.00, but his overall will be much higher due to those bad innings. However, a half-dozen three walk innings will get swallowed if a guy consistently gets more K's than BB's.

 

[frankiesfly]

Uh, he's 4-0, Mr. Baseball. He only pitched 4 2/3 innings last night, so Tavarez got the win. Also, Gabbard got rocked, and his ERA is now only .06 lower than Daisuke's, so I guess Gabbard sucks now, too.

Your dumber than i thought. I obviously typed this before that situation occured. He is probably the first pitcher in MLB to have a 8-1 lead and not get the desicion, LMAO Your good at ignoring pitchers starts here and there so just ignore this one you'll be o.k. Like you ignore Dice K's bad games. You were no where to be found for weeks and all of a sudden Dice K has a good game and you show your face.What a joke. Your like every other fan who can't face the facts. When you show your face after a loss maybe I'll respect your opinions. Oh yeah by the way i forgot to ask you if you wanted a Dice K sucks T-shirt from me. I'll give it to ya for free. No shipping and handling included.

 

[frankiesfly]

Hey, I'm not a huge stat guy, either. They tell most of the story, but not all of it.

To answer your question, if a pitcher gives up a half-dozen innings of five runs or more in a season (just throwing numbers out there), that will go a long way towards wrecking his ERA for that season. His ERA for every other start could be 3.00, but his overall will be much higher due to those bad innings. However, a half-dozen three walk innings will get swallowed if a guy consistently gets more K's than BB's.

Thats why therei's the WHIP stat now and the ERA stat.

 

[Fixit]

Your dumber than i thought. I obviously typed this before that situation occured. He is probably the first pitcher in MLB to have a 8-1 lead and not get the desicion, LMAO Your good at ignoring pitchers starts here and there so just ignore this one you'll be o.k. Like you ignore Dice K's bad games. You were no where to be found for weeks and all of a sudden Dice K has a good game and you show your face.What a joke. Your like every other fan who can't face the facts. When you show your face after a loss maybe I'll respect your opinions. Oh yeah by the way i forgot to ask you if you wanted a Dice K sucks T-shirt from me. I'll give it to ya for free. No shipping and handling included.

At no point have I ignored his bad starts. Bad starts are part of a pitcher's life, which is something you haven't wrapped your head around. "All of a sudden" he has a good game? Check his stats from his last ten starts. The fact that I didn't post in this thread for like two weeks is because I assumed your idiocy had burned itself out. Turns out I was wrong.

As far as Gabbard, do you think you should get a free pass for jumping the gun that he went to 5-0? If not for Tavarez (Tavarez!) bailing him out of the bases loaded jam, it could have been a lot worse. But it's only a bad game. Also, I'd wager that he's not the only pitcher to get a no-decision after being spotted an 8-1 lead.

Lastly, your grammar is freakin' atrocious, so if you're going to call someone dumb, you should at the very least make sure to use the correct word out of the following two: your or you're.

 

[frankiesfly]

At no point have I ignored his bad starts. Bad starts are part of a pitcher's life, which is something you haven't wrapped your head around. "All of a sudden" he has a good game? Check his stats from his last ten starts. The fact that I didn't post in this thread for like two weeks is because I assumed your idiocy had burned itself out. Turns out I was wrong.

As far as Gabbard, do you think you should get a free pass for jumping the gun that he went to 5-0? If not for Tavarez (Tavarez!) bailing him out of the bases loaded jam, it could have been a lot worse. But it's only a bad game. Also, I'd wager that he's not the only pitcher to get a no-decision after being spotted an 8-1 lead.

Lastly, your grammar is freakin' atrocious, so if you're going to call someone dumb, you should at the very least make sure to use the correct word out of the following two: your or you're.

Not only are you a baseball expert, now a grammar expert. What, i spelt one word wrong typing at a 100 miles an hour and you have to make it a point. I can see you now proof reading everything you write over and over again before you post it. I'm done with this thread, I'll be back when Dice K gets his ass bashed in by Tampa Bay. Thats right I'm not afraid to stick my neck out there, because you know what, i really don't give a crap if I'm wrong. At least i have balls enought to take the chance and say the last place team is going to smack around your so-called ace.:singing:

 

[Fixit]

What, i spelt one word wrong typing at a 100 miles an hour and you have to make it a point.
No, you had several, but I just focused on one due to the irony of it.

i really don't give a crap if I'm wrong.
That's fairly obvious.

May the road rise to meet you...