Dice K the most boring pitcher in MLB

[frankiesfly]

I don't think he's a closet racist. He hasn't been ranting about Okie. I'd say he's more likely a closet Yankee fan. I believe there's 4 teams between the Yankees and the last AL playoff spot. That'd be enough to get any fan saying stuff that makes no sense.

Actually i like Okie. He was on my fantasy team all season up to a week ago i delt him off in a trade.

 

[frankiesfly]

well i think we can close the book on one thing....and that's the fact that you can't objectively look at baseball! You refuse to look at the past 5 games dicek pitches saying "i was only talking about the Tampa game" and then as soon as dicek has a bad outing against Detroit you want to use that as a point of emphasis He had a bad outing against a team that gives a lot of pitchers bad outings...it happens. I would prefer to look at the entire year as a body of work rather than just 1, err 2 games. You seem to just want to cherry pic certain games to help further your point of you hating dicek

Now that the 1st half of the season is over; there are things that the sox need to work on/ worry about.....dice k isn't one of them.

I did look at his last 5 games. He had good outings against mediocre offenses, and against teams thhat just saw him for the first time around.( the last 5) I used the Detroit game as example to back what i said about that, and how i said it was a matter of time before teams catch on to him. Dice K had good numbers against Detroit the first time around and look what hapened the second time.So using that game as example is legit. He's going to struggle the rest of the season. He still will probably have some good outings but more bad games than good. He will still probably be good against teams that never seen him, but as he starts to see teams around for the second time he is going to struggle. Beckett is still your ace, and always will be.

 

[Foley]

He's going to struggle the rest of the season. He still will probably have some good outings but more bad games than good. He will still probably be good against teams that never seen him, but as he starts to see teams around for the second time he is going to struggle. Beckett is still your ace, and always will be.

And what exactly makes you think this? I think the fact that he was leaving his pitches up against Detroit had more to do with his poor outing than the fact that they have solved him or anything like that. Because when you leave pitches up against a good offense they will hit you hard, regardless of how many times they've seen you before.

Do you not think his stuff is good? Because he normally gets it where he wants, has decent velocity, can be deceptive, and has not given me (or most anyone else) reason to believe that he sucks. I'm not trying to be argumentative I just really don't understand your opinion on him.

 

[maverick4]

frankiesfly is either is a yankees fan or a closet racist.

the fact that dice-k can get MLB hitters to swing at bad pitches shows just how good his stuff is. this guy just keeps getting better and better the longer he plays.

great pitchers, like pedro, often made hitters look silly because their stuff was so good, it looked hittable when it left their hand but ended up being off the strike zone.

 

[mtbykr]

I did look at his last 5 games. He had good outings against mediocre offenses, and against teams thhat just saw him for the first time around.( the last 5) I used the Detroit game as example to back what i said about that, and how i said it was a matter of time before teams catch on to him. Dice K had good numbers against Detroit the first time around and look what hapened the second time.So using that game as example is legit. He's going to struggle the rest of the season. He still will probably have some good outings but more bad games than good. He will still probably be good against teams that never seen him, but as he starts to see teams around for the second time he is going to struggle. Beckett is still your ace, and always will be.

So if dicek wins 18 games then he must just be facing teams that suck and haven't seen him yet.....ok We'll see if you show up around here when he wins, or only if he has a bad outing. Ohh and exactly what team do you follow?

 

[frankiesfly]

frankiesfly is either is a yankees fan or a closet racist.

the fact that dice-k can get MLB hitters to swing at bad pitches shows just how good his stuff is. this guy just keeps getting better and better the longer he plays.

great pitchers, like pedro, often made hitters look silly because their stuff was so good, it looked hittable when it left their hand but ended up being off the strike zone.

First off i should tell you that I'm more impressed with over powering pitchers than pitchers with the screwy stuff. So that is a reason why I'm not as impressed with Dice K as I am with Beckett, or any other pitchers that don't pitch with power. I also don't like Wakefield so I'm not racist. Pedro has some good breaking pitches but he also had a fastball that hit high 90"s so the breaking stuff made batters look even worse. Like you said Pedro threw pitches that looked good to the batter and ended out of the stike zone, like what most pitchers try to do. Foe Dice K its been obvious that he has been struggling doing that. You don't give up 6 runs and 3 homeruns if your pitching good. He did the same thing in the Tamps game and litterally got lucky against an already slumping offense. Thats why i was kind of pissed about the Tampa game in the first place because they weren't taking advantage of Dice K's mistakes. He made the same mistakes in Detroit. Those mistakes were vaidated by Jim Rice and Sean Casey after the game. I always liked Pedro even when he was with you guys in Boston. I'm a Mets fan so i like him even more now. I'm looking forward to him coming back because we need him, especially if we are going to beat you guys in the World Series. So if I'm a Mets fan, do you still think i like the Yanks?

 

[mtbykr]

First off i should tell you that I'm more impressed with over powering pitchers than pitchers with the screwy stuff. So that is a reason why I'm not as impressed with Dice K as I am with Beckett, or any other pitchers that don't pitch with power. I also don't like Wakefield so I'm not racist. Pedro has some good breaking pitches but he also had a fastball that hit high 90"s so the breaking stuff made batters look even worse. Like you said Pedro threw pitches that looked good to the batter and ended out of the stike zone, like what most pitchers try to do. Foe Dice K its been obvious that he has been struggling doing that. You don't give up 6 runs and 3 homeruns if your pitching good. He did the same thing in the Tamps game and litterally got lucky against an already slumping offense. Thats why i was kind of pissed about the Tampa game in the first place because they weren't taking advantage of Dice K's mistakes. He made the same mistakes in Detroit. Those mistakes were vaidated by Jim Rice and Sean Casey after the game. I always liked Pedro even when he was with you guys in Boston. I'm a Mets fan so i like him even more now. I'm looking forward to him coming back because we need him, especially if we are going to beat you guys in the World Series. So if I'm a Mets fan, do you still think i like the Yanks?

so then you were impressed with beckett last year? Beckett is better this year (much improved) becuase now he doesn't rear back and throw it harder when key situations come up like last year. He mixes in the screwy stuff, and now he's a cy young guy!

 

[Foley]

First off i should tell you that I'm more impressed with over powering pitchers than pitchers with the screwy stuff. So that is a reason why I'm not as impressed with Dice K as I am with Beckett, or any other pitchers that don't pitch with power. I also don't like Wakefield so I'm not racist.

Screwy stuff? He throws his four-seamer in the mid-90s to go along with plus-breaking pitches. I don't know what you consider "screwy stuff" but if you're implying that hes a soft tosser who only gets by with being deceptive than you are very wrong. And thats great that you prefer Beckett to Matsuzaka, so do I and a lot of other people, but just because of that fact doesn't mean he sucks.

He made the same mistakes in Detroit. Those mistakes were vaidated by Jim Rice and Sean Casey after the game.

And thats what was wrong with him in the game: he left his pitches up. That is not something that he usually does, is not something that one should expect him to continue doing, and something that will result in him getting hit hard against a good offense regardless of how many times that have faced him. Nothing you have written is evidence that he sucks and good offenses will solve him, just that he had uncharacteristic bad control.

 

[frankiesfly]

Screwy stuff? He throws his four-seamer in the mid-90s to go along with plus-breaking pitches. I don't know what you consider "screwy stuff" but if you're implying that hes a soft tosser who only gets by with being deceptive than you are very wrong. And thats great that you prefer Beckett to Matsuzaka, so do I and a lot of other people, but just because of that fact doesn't mean he sucks.

And thats what was wrong with him in the game: he left his pitches up. That is not something that he usually does, is not something that one should expect him to continue doing, and something that will result in him getting hit hard against a good offense regardless of how many times that have faced him. Nothing you have written is evidence that he sucks and good offenses will solve him, just that he had uncharacteristic bad control.

I have written so much stuff in this thread that there were times when i went off and talked about other things, and other games. Yes there were games when i thought Dice K was wild and there was other times where i though he just had tough time hitting his spots. The Tamoa game, yes i would of called him being wild. The Detroit game he was more like not hitting his spots. There was more games than those where i seen both. I'm trying to keep things as recent as i can so we can all remember his outings. I'm looking forward to his next start, just to see how he does now. If he goes out and pitches a good game i will admit it, and give him credit when its due, but not until then. I think the second half of the season is going to tell us who he really is. Maybe saying he sucks is being to harsh, so I'll take it back and just say he's not that good. Mid 90's is 94-96, i don't remember Dice K even hitting 94.

 

[Foley]

I have written so much stuff in this thread that there were times when i went off and talked about other things, and other games. Yes there were games when i thought Dice K was wild and there was other times where i though he just had tough time hitting his spots. The Tamoa game, yes i would of called him being wild. The Detroit game he was more like not hitting his spots. There was more games than those where i seen both.

Being a little wild isn't something that should be much of a problem, having poor control where he can't hit his spots is. And being that neither is something that has been a consistent problem than there is no reason for it to be a concern or reason to think it will prevent him from being successful. He will have bad games and he will have games where he is wild or lacks command, but until those games become frequent (which they haven't been), or until there is some actual reasoning to suggest that they will become frequent (which there isn't) than there is no reason for it to be a concern.

Mid 90's is 94-96, i don't remember Dice K even hitting 94.

There are a lot of scouting reports that disagree with the notion that he tops out at 93. But even if he does, so what? Lets just say he does top out at 93 and dozens of scouts are wrong, that doesn't mean he can't succeed and can't be a significantly above average starting pitcher. Greg Maddux has probably never thrown a pitch harder than 93mph in his entire career but he is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball history. Tom Glavine has never been a hard thrower but has also managed a tremendous career. Just because you may not be as impressed with pitchers who aren't overpowering does not mean that they can't be successful. As long as Matsuzaka has decent control (which he usually does) than he can be an above average starting pitcher even if his velocity is as sub-par as you say.

 

[Fixit]

Four-hit shutout of Cleveland? BO-ring!

 

[frankiesfly]

Four-hit shutout of Cleveland? BO-ring!

Horrible pitching the previous 3 games.....funny

 

[Fixit]

Horrible pitching the previous 3 games.....funny

He may have had control issues, but I wouldn't classify 3 and 4 earned runs as "horrible." He was lights out for six starts before that. The greatest pitchers in history have bad streaks, so I think it's okay for a rookie to do so.

Man, you're picky.

 

[mtbykr]

Horrible pitching the previous 3 games.....funny

what's funny is that you rip him every-time he pitches well with crap like "he's not facing a quality lineup, and if he did he'd get shelled", and worse when he doesn't pitch well. Now he faces another quality lineup in Cleveland and you still can't give him credit. Congrats, once again you have proved you can't be objective

 

[frankiesfly]

what's funny is that you rip him every-time he pitches well with crap like "he's not facing a quality lineup, and if he did he'd get shelled", and worse when he doesn't pitch well. Now he faces another quality lineup in Cleveland and you still can't give him credit. Congrats, once again you have proved you can't be objective

If you were to ask me i would of told you i thought he pitched very good against the Indians last night. I didn't even coment on that game yet and your burning me to the stake. I said i would give him credit when its due, and yes, he pitched good last night. Dice K having a good game 1 out of 5 is what you think is a good starter, then more power to ya. Are you sure he is still worth 50 million dollars just to tak to? Thats why I'm going to analyze him, and critisize him. You guys are the ones who wanted to go and dish out all this ridiculous money for a number 2 pitcher. He has been down more than up, and i didn't say anything when he was down, but from now on i will.

 

[frankiesfly]

He may have had control issues, but I wouldn't classify 3 and 4 earned runs as "horrible." He was lights out for six starts before that. The greatest pitchers in history have bad streaks, so I think it's okay for a rookie to do so.

Man, you're picky.

You're right I'am picky. They weren't horrible, but they also weren't great. He was good last night. I actually was impressed.

 

[frankiesfly]

I just looked at the schedule. Dice K will be pitching in Tropicana Field, in Tampa Bay sunday. Just for props I'm willing to make a friendly bet with you guys. I'm going to set Dice K's earned runs at 3.5 for the game. I'm going to take the over and you guys get the under. So I'm saying he will give up at leat 4 runs in that game. I think its a fair bet since he will be pitchng against Tampa Bay.

 

[Fixit]

Dice K having a good game 1 out of 5 is what you think is a good starter, then more power to ya. Are you sure he is still worth 50 million dollars just to talk to? He has been down more than up, and i didn't say anything when he was down, but from now on i will.

This is so ridiculous. I can't believe this is even a discussion.

Look at his body of work. He's gotten tattooed in a couple of starts, he's been average in several, he's been very good in a bunch, and he's been great in just as many.

The frickin' guy is 12-7 with a 3.79 ERA, and a 136:49 K:BB ratio in 137 innings. He's lost two games in which he gave up 3 earned runs, two games when he gave up 2, and a game when he gave up one damn earned run. He's eight offensive runs away from being 15-4. As a rookie.

I'll take that kind of down all season, every season.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

I just want to drop in and say I'm pretty darn happy with the way that Daisuke has worked out.

Part of me was hoping he'd baffle the competition due to unfamiliarity and have an ERA below 3. It wasn't an expectation but rather a hope, and that hope was not fulfilled.

He gives them a greater than average chance to win each of his games and he can eat up innings. This is also his adjustment year (pitching every 5 days rather than once a week) and I can see him throwing a lot more innings in future years.

Look at what Zito got and what Zambrano will get and Daisuke doesn't look so expensive. Half of the money spent on him not being susceptible to the luxury tax is another little benefit.

Oh, and he's what? 27? He might only get better? Sign me up for 5 more years.

 

[maverick4]

Man, you're picky.

he's not picky, frankiesfly's simply a bigoted xenophobe, that's all =D