Developing new OL

[ATippett56]

Can you link me to where you saw this? Not saying you're lying, but I haven't seen this yet.

His brother played awfully well in cold weather this year!

 

[NEPats1]

Now, as I understand it, the difficulty from hardest to easiest is generally LT-RT-LG-C-RG.

Could someone give a full breakdown and explain the specific differences and characteristics of each position of an O-line puts a premium on the LT/RT tackle positions over the interior line. Also, what's the difference between RG and LG, don't they just have to be good run blockers? And also LT vs RT?

Thanks

 

[sbpatfan]

The number one priority this offseason should be keeping Mankins.. If he walks the old and questionable on talent offensive line is screwed.

 

[part-timer]

Agreed.

As of right now, the only players I am comfortable with on the line next year are Light, Mankins and Vollmer.

Koppen and RG du jour should be pushed hard.

As I rember when Vollmer had an oppurtunity at LT he outpreformed Light, but BB stated Light was incapible of playing RT. So to keep his best two OT's on the field Vollmer got stuck at RT. As far as I am concerned this logic is ***** backwards, play your best LT in that spot being it is the most important OL possition. And if Light can not make the swith to RT it is time to let him leave or make a sign and trade to recover some value from him. In picking up a quality swing tackle we leave options open for competion at LT and the mobility in the possition to move RT to LT in case of injury with out much loss of quality of play.
With the same pattern of thought the RG or C we pick up should be good enough to move to LG if needed to cover all possibilities related to the loss of Mankins.
If we pick up a Quality swing OT, Quality OG capible of playing RG and LG, and a quality C capible of playing all interior possitions we cover all options.
We can no longer afford to pick up project players in the hope of them panning out. We have done this too long and nothing has panned out and our OL is falling apart due to age and injury.

 

[andrewgarrr]

As I rember when Vollmer had an oppurtunity at LT he outpreformed Light, but BB stated Light was incapible of playing RT. So to keep his best two OT's on the field Vollmer got stuck at RT. As far as I am concerned this logic is ***** backwards, play your best LT in that spot being it is the most important OL possition.

It's not backwards logic. It's good logic. You get the most talent on the field by having two good players on the field as opposed to one good player and one JAG. It's not very easy to pick up good tackles. You can't just drop Matt Light and find someone better than him to replace him with so easily and cost-effectively. The line is only as good as its weakest player. Having one good left tackle is useless - most of the dynamic pass rushers will just move over to the left to face your right tackle. Your logic is incomplete.

I think G is worth a first round pick, and I think C is worth a third round pick. Koppen is still capable. Conolly has been in the league for more than four years and in my estimation he is always going to be a depth building player. However, I would be happy with the selection of a G and a C at #28 and #33. I also think we will trade out of #33.

I also think resigning Mankins to the long-term deal established before this season, and resigning Light to a two year deal would be good for the continuity of the line, development of newly drafted line-man, leadership, and overall play of the team. I am OK with Light on the left and Vollmer on the right - Light has gotten beat a few times this season, but he is still one of the better tackles in the league. I think signing a high priced free agent at interior line-man is not an option because I think Mankins should be the priority.

Light Mankins Koppen DraftPick Vollmer

 

[Patspsycho]

Can you link me to where you saw this? Not saying you're lying, but I haven't seen this yet.

My mistake that was Nick Fairley:

http://sportifi.com/news/Fairley-no-fan-of-the-cold-475840.html

I think I mixed them both up because Fairley was in one newslink and Mike Pouncey was in the next link.

 

[jmt57]

Could someone give a full breakdown and explain the specific differences and characteristics of each position of an O-line puts a premium on the LT/RT tackle positions over the interior line. Also, what's the difference between RG and LG, don't they just have to be good run blockers? And also LT vs RT?

Thanks

This is a very brief explanation, but hope this helps:

Tackles need to be more athletic and quicker since they are on the outside of the line, and need to be quick enough to block not only a DE or OLB that is rushing the passer, but also sometimes a DB.

Almost all quarterbacks throw with their right hand. When a right handed quarterback drops back and sets to pass, he is facing the side of the line where the RT is, and his back is to the side where the LT is. Because the LT is protecting the blind side of the QB, it is more important that nobody gets past him; that's why there is a premium on a LT over a RT.

Guards don't have to be as concerned with speed rushers going by them since they are not on the end of the line. Because there are so many bodies in the middle an opposing defense is far more likely to focus its pass rush further away, off the tackle. Guards don't have to be as quick, but they need to be big and strong in order to succeed in both pass blocking and run blocking.

The interior line (RG, C, LG) forms the pocket to protect the QB, so they have to be able to do more than just be run blockers. If the opposing line gets a push and disrupts the pocket it will cause havoc; the QB needs both time and space to throw the ball for the passing game to work.

 

[part-timer]

It's not backwards logic. It's good logic. You get the most talent on the field by having two good players on the field as opposed to one good player and one JAG. It's not very easy to pick up good tackles. You can't just drop Matt Light and find someone better than him to replace him with so easily and cost-effectively. The line is only as good as its weakest player. Having one good left tackle is useless - most of the dynamic pass rushers will just move over to the left to face your right tackle. Your logic is incomplete.

I think G is worth a first round pick, and I think C is worth a third round pick. Koppen is still capable. Conolly has been in the league for more than four years and in my estimation he is always going to be a depth building player. However, I would be happy with the selection of a G and a C at #28 and #33. I also think we will trade out of #33.

I also think resigning Mankins to the long-term deal established before this season, and resigning Light to a two year deal would be good for the continuity of the line, development of newly drafted line-man, leadership, and overall play of the team. I am OK with Light on the left and Vollmer on the right - Light has gotten beat a few times this season, but he is still one of the better tackles in the league. I think signing a high priced free agent at interior line-man is not an option because I think Mankins should be the priority.

Light Mankins Koppen DraftPick Vollmer

I thought I layed out a plan to repopulate the OL with quality replacements useing only one pick in each of the first 3 rounds.( pick 28 Carimi or castonzo, Pick 33, (pouncey or Wisniewski, and pick 74 Ijalana). Just a point not one the players mentioned is a JAG. If you think these three picks are wasted on the OL, what do you see being done with 6 picks in the first three round? DB's so well stocked we will be cutting good quality players,ILB two excelent starters and a good quality backup, so on defence we nee a quality DE, and OLB. On offence TE two excelent starters, one good roll player, and a good prospect on the PS. WR currently well stocked with a few prospects on the IR and PS. RB, One good all purpose every down 1000 yd back, one excelent change of pace and third down RB, could use a late round powerback to tandum with BJGE or a vetran FA. So other than Ol we need 1 quality DE ,Pick 17, that leaves us with a 1 Quality OLB, 1late round RB, and maby a late rould prospect at WR, If you want a high round WR who do tou release). I only needs that I see being worth a pick in the first 3 rounds are Defensive front seven and OL. Rember the OL protects Brady, buys time for the passing game to develop, and opens holes for the running game. All three phases of offence are improver buy upgradeing the OL.

So. who do we pick in the first three rounds if OL is not a priority?

 

[Kontradiction]

My mistake that was Nick Fairley:

Fairley no fan of the cold - NFL Draft News

I think I mixed them both up because Fairley was in one newslink and Mike Pouncey was in the next link.

Never scare me like that again.

 

[Schmo]

Agreed.

As of right now, the only players I am comfortable with on the line next year are Light, Mankins and Vollmer.

Koppen and RG du jour should be pushed hard.

Exactly the same feelings. C and RG are a very immediate concern, whereas a replacement for Light (or for Vollmer to move to LT) is going to be desperately needed (at the latest) in the next 2 years. Making sure we have that extra edge protector in the wings would be very comforting.

This is a very brief explanation, but hope this helps:

Tackles need to be more athletic and quicker since they are on the outside of the line, and need to be quick enough to block not only a DE or OLB that is rushing the passer, but also sometimes a DB.

Almost all quarterbacks throw with their right hand. When a right handed quarterback drops back and sets to pass, he is facing the side of the line where the RT is, and his back is to the side where the LT is. Because the LT is protecting the blind side of the QB, it is more important that nobody gets past him; that's why there is a premium on a LT over a RT.

Guards don't have to be as concerned with speed rushers going by them since they are not on the end of the line. Because there are so many bodies in the middle an opposing defense is far more likely to focus its pass rush further away, off the tackle. Guards don't have to be as quick, but they need to be big and strong in order to succeed in both pass blocking and run blocking.

The interior line (RG, C, LG) forms the pocket to protect the QB, so they have to be able to do more than just be run blockers. If the opposing line gets a push and disrupts the pocket it will cause havoc; the QB needs both time and space to throw the ball for the passing game to work.

And as far as the interior 3 go, the LG is left on an island more, therefore having to handle more 1 on 1's. The RG will mostly double-team with the C or RT. At least that's the way I understand it.

 

[Seneschal2]

I agree wholeheartedly about addressing the O-line concerns NOW, here's some food for thought:

A couple of seasons ago when the Pats were among eight teams on the eve of the playoffs, there was an article written about the O-lines of each of those teams. What I remember most was the fact that only one offensive lineman was drafted in round one. Yes, that would be Mankins selected at #32. The obvious point being that good O-lines are developed, and not necessarily made up of first round picks. So this draft, maybe we can keep that in mind as the Pats direct their efforts to all of their vulnerable areas. JMHO.

 

[sg14]

This is actually a subject I wanted to bring up, yes our Oline only has one first rounder, but 4'5th's of the OL is comprised of high qualty draft picks/ atheletes. Have to place Neal at a top level, athetically speaking, so the whole line except for Koppen can be considered high draft picks.

There is a lot of discussion on here about the Scar academy developing low round picks, but they usually only amount to back-up players. Therefore, going by past experience with the Pats, to refurbish the OL will take a number of high round picks, first and second rounds.

I am not saying that we need to rebuild, but there a ton of loose ends, and a replacement for Neal is a definite need.

Is this the year we change our style to more run dominate, keep Mankins and add a roadgrader type at RG? Take the load off number 12?? If we improve the run game, we improve the pass game correspondingly.

Is this the year we get a big RB, ala Keith Byars that can protect Brady when a DL stunt comes free? Do we get a FB to become more run dominate?

We had a huge turnover last year, this offseason will be very interesting.

I agree wholeheartedly about addressing the O-line concerns NOW, here's some food for thought:

A couple of seasons ago when the Pats were among eight teams on the eve of the playoffs, there was an article written about the O-lines of each of those teams. What I remember most was the fact that only one offensive lineman was drafted in round one. Yes, that would be Mankins selected at #32. The obvious point being that good O-lines are developed, and not necessarily made up of first round picks. So this draft, maybe we can keep that in mind as the Pats direct their efforts to all of their vulnerable areas. JMHO.

 

[chicowalker]

This is a very brief explanation, but hope this helps:

Tackles need to be more athletic and quicker since they are on the outside of the line, and need to be quick enough to block not only a DE or OLB that is rushing the passer, but also sometimes a DB.

Almost all quarterbacks throw with their right hand. When a right handed quarterback drops back and sets to pass, he is facing the side of the line where the RT is, and his back is to the side where the LT is. Because the LT is protecting the blind side of the QB, it is more important that nobody gets past him; that's why there is a premium on a LT over a RT.

Guards don't have to be as concerned with speed rushers going by them since they are not on the end of the line. Because there are so many bodies in the middle an opposing defense is far more likely to focus its pass rush further away, off the tackle. Guards don't have to be as quick, but they need to be big and strong in order to succeed in both pass blocking and run blocking.

The interior line (RG, C, LG) forms the pocket to protect the QB, so they have to be able to do more than just be run blockers. If the opposing line gets a push and disrupts the pocket it will cause havoc; the QB needs both time and space to throw the ball for the passing game to work.

I think LG also > RG because on running downs they'll tend to pull more, and they also have the importance of guarding the QB's left side on passing downs.

And C often has responsibility for calling protections.