Desperate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

yes they can use a real #3 WR and Aiken got away with a push off and he made a great catch on a bad throw by brady


but the pats still have ben watson, maroney chris baker to throw to you can't cover every budy

and if they would run the ball a lil more and if brady would take the 5 and 6 yerd routs that are open and let the big play come to him and not force it they would get a lot of first down and keep the D off of the field

but brady think he need to win ever game on he's own and from the calls that BB is makeing so dose he

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Don't mind the number of targets for Welker since his receptions/targets percentage is amazing. With Moss, it really should be quality over quantity. Aiken is a gameplan/matchup player since he doesn't get open quickly.

Your stats show that Edelman is a solid target and he has been missed, especially for 4th quarter conversions. The really issue has been Watson being hurt. He attacks the intermediate zones and puts pressure on the safeties. Getting Edelman and Watson healthy will address a lot of the "3rd option" questions.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Aiken is a 5th WR, maybe 4th at best. He's not dependable enough for a 3rd option. Sure he has had some nice plays and he tries hard, but I wouldn't be investing heavily in him.

Joey Galloway stuffed this team. Jerk.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

What is your argument for that?

He is in his 6th year and has a career high of 17 receptions. I thought he was 26 but hes 29. If he were a true #2, we'd be seeing it by now and he would have emerged somewhere else.

A #2 is Donte Stallworth/David Patton/Troy Brown/Vincent Brisby/Michael Timpson-type. Aiken doesnt have that talent or skill.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Not sure where you are coming from, Aiken had great separation on the Brady overthrow that he made a tremendous attempt to catch.

Galloway is a one trick pony. He knows vertical speed and that's it. Never mind trying to teach a multiple option offense based on coverage.

I wasn't talking about the overthrow (where the separation was largely due to one on one blown coverage with his man trying to make up ground). I was talking about the actual touchdown pass.

As for Galloway, I firmly believe what some other posters here have been saying, and that's that the coaching staff could have probably made the offense more comfortable for him. The guy was 38 but he still had gamebreaking speed and could beat defenses deep. In one of the games in which he was given a chance, the Jets game, he beat his man BADLY and had what would have been a game-winning touchdown catch and Brady missed him by 10 yards. A couple of drops later and he was off the team.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Aiken is a 5th WR, maybe 4th at best. He's not dependable enough for a 3rd option. Sure he has had some nice plays and he tries hard, but I wouldn't be investing heavily in him.

Joey Galloway stuffed this team. Jerk.

Aiken is a quality 4th WR. He just is our #3 because of what we are working with. I really hope Tate comes back healthy and can be our #3 WR. Aiken and Edelman would be quality 4th and 5th options. A healthy Edelman would also be key to take some of the pressure off of Welker and give him a few plays off. He takes a beating out there and deserves a few plays off.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

The way Aiken is stepping up, he's going to get more and more chances. Brady is trusting and he's putting up fights for the ball most of the time.

If ANYTHING good came from the fish-bowl, it's that defenses will have to give Aiken some thought now.

Your Sam Aiken trust is misguided. He is a well-below-average NFL receiver.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Aiken is a quality 4th WR. He just is our #3 because of what we are working with. I really hope Tate comes back healthy and can be our #3 WR. Aiken and Edelman would be quality 4th and 5th options. A healthy Edelman would also be key to take some of the pressure off of Welker and give him a few plays off. He takes a beating out there and deserves a few plays off.

Agreed. Edelman is a solid target and has the ability to make defenses pay in the mid-range passing game. He would also alleviate a lot of the responsibilities placed on Aiken's shoulders once Moss and Welker are double covered. Here are the things we need to improve this offense for the playoffs, in order...

1. Healthy offensive line: Everytime this O-Line plays together as a cohesive unit, it gives Brady a ton of time to operate and makes it so that Watson can get off the line and into routes. This was shown in the earlier season games. The last time I can remember Watson making a big catch was the Bucs game. Since then, everytime I see him, he is on the line of scrimmage blocking.

2. Return of Julian Edelman: As mentioned, it will give us a solid 3rd/4th option in the passing game that can make defenses pay for double covering Welker and Moss. Also, as mentioned, it alleviates a lot of the responsibility from Aiken.

3. Full option of RBs/Return of Fred Taylor: This will help keep Maroney, Morris, and Faulk fresh for the playoffs.

Then, once we get these guys back and we're in the playoffs, we have to pray for our defense NOT to play the way they have for the past month or so.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Agreed. Edelman is a solid target and has the ability to make defenses pay in the mid-range passing game. He would also alleviate a lot of the responsibilities placed on Aiken's shoulders once Moss and Welker are double covered. Here are the things we need to improve this offense for the playoffs, in order...

1. Healthy offensive line: Everytime this O-Line plays together as a cohesive unit, it gives Brady a ton of time to operate and makes it so that Watson can get off the line and into routes. This was shown in the earlier season games. The last time I can remember Watson making a big catch was the Bucs game. Since then, everytime I see him, he is on the line of scrimmage blocking.

2. Return of Julian Edelman: As mentioned, it will give us a solid 3rd/4th option in the passing game that can make defenses pay for double covering Welker and Moss. Also, as mentioned, it alleviates a lot of the responsibility from Aiken.

3. Full option of RBs/Return of Fred Taylor: This will help keep Maroney, Morris, and Faulk fresh for the playoffs.

Then, once we get these guys back and we're in the playoffs, we have to pray for our defense NOT to play the way they have for the past month or so.

I agree with your points and I think that if all of this comes true this will also improve our defense. It will take some of the pressure off of them and we can also control TOP to keep our defense off the field. Also, knowing that your offense can score at any point also gives more confidence to the defense. I think if our offensive starts to improve our defense will as well

 

[JSn]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Your Sam Aiken trust is misguided. He is a well-below-average NFL receiver.

Great argument. High Five!

 

[muzz]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Aiken is a 5th WR, maybe 4th at best. He's not dependable enough for a 3rd option. Sure he has had some nice plays and he tries hard, but I wouldn't be investing heavily in him.

Joey Galloway stuffed this team. Jerk.

Sorry to say it, but that was BILLS call.

 

[BTTA]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

It is hard to tell how much of this is about player talent, player performance, and offensive system/play calling. Right now I lean toward the latter.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

Great argument. High Five!

What makes you think he's a good #3 WR?

His career high in catches in 5 seasons going into this season was 11.

He's not a good route runner & he has below average hands.

He's only catching half the balls thrown his way despite his two counterparts being doubled on a play by play basis.

When I go to training camp every year, his first focus is not even the wide receiver position, he works primarily with special teamers.

I see no signs that we even intended to employ him as a wide receiver before the Lewis/Galloway busts. We added 2 WR in free agency and 2 via the draft. And again, Aiken was seeing very few wide receiver reps in practice or in preseason.

When Edelman has been healthy, Aiken shares reps with him, or is even replaced by him. That's right, a 7th round rookie who has never played wide receiver in his life until a few months ago.

I shouldn't need to explain why Aiken is not a legit #3 wideout, I'd honestly like to see why you think he is. I like him for what he is, decent depth and a great STer. But on a team that spreads out 3 wide, he does not cut it at #3.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Deserate need for a legit 3rd option - stats prove it

I shouldn't need to explain why Aiken is not a legit #3 wideout, I'd honestly like to see why you think he is. I like him for what he is, decent depth and a great STer. But on a team that spreads out 3 wide, he does not cut it at #3.

He's not very good depth then.

 

[The Coon]

Did we even put up a fight in trying to resign Gaffney? I loved the guy when he was here, a very good move the chains guy who had a good rapport with Brady and this offense.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Welker was running some wideout routes against the Dolphins instead of his usual slot spot. I'm wondering if that's going to continue. It's not something I'm used to seeing, but he did pretty well. If he does that sometimes, we could plug Edelman into the slot when he is healthy.

Welker would be undersized for the wideout spot, so he probably wouldn't be able to do it for a whole game. But there are a lot of smaller wideouts with speed, like Santana Moss, DeSean Jackson, and Devery Henderson.

Edelman might not be a true #3 option, but he is capable of filling that slot role as he proved against the Jets, and it would give Brady one more option.

I like Aiken's improvement. He does look like a #4 guy. Then again, he looked like a JAG his first few games, so he is definitely improving. Hopefully he can continue to improve and fill that #3 WR role.

 

[Kontradiction]

Welker would be undersized for the wideout spot, so he probably wouldn't be able to do it for a whole game. But there are a lot of smaller wideouts with speed, like Santana Moss, DeSean Jackson, and Devery Henderson.

Those guys are all fast. Welker is quick, and yes there is a difference. Moss, Jackson, and Henderson all have top end speed and a quick burst off the line to get behind the man. Welker has that burst, but doesn't have sustained deep threat speed on the perimeter. That burst is good though. It's what makes him most dangerous in the slot because he's able to cut in and out of his routes and turn it immediately upfield with the greatest of ease.

 

[JSn]

I like Aiken's improvement. He does look like a #4 guy. Then again, he looked like a JAG his first few games, so he is definitely improving. Hopefully he can continue to improve and fill that #3 WR role.

That's what I'm saying. These arguments that he wasn't even practicing at WR in camp only bolster the point. Like anything else in life, what you HAVE BEEN doesn't always define what you WILL BE.

That said, let's move on to Carolina. A run of 4 W's would feel great, even against inferior teams.

 

[JSn]

I'm jumping back into this thread once more after reading through a great Tom Curran article.

http://www.csnne.com/pages/landing?Curran-It-is-what-it-wasnt=1&blockID=100290&feedID=4023

Tom Brady said it all Monday morning on WEEI when he said of the changing state of the team, "You're not going to replace all those years of experience and winning games with guys that haven't been in those games. You miss those things . . . There's only one Rodney Harrison. Those guys just aren't just floating around everywhere. It's not like there's 32 of those in the league. There's one guy, and that's why he was such a talented, great player. Ty Law and Willie McGinest and Ted Johnson and Roman Phifer. And obviously Richard [Seymour] and [Mike] Vrabel. These guys were incredible players. It's not like you win Super Bowls without great players and great coaching. We have great coaching and we have some players now that are really — a guy like [Sam] Aiken who is really starting to make some great plays for us on offense, for a guy that really wasn't even part of the receiver mix early in the year, wasn't even playing much. Those are kind of guys who step up and become good players for us. And we need more of those guys."

I'm telling you, Aiken is about to become more a part of the game plan than the most staunchly negative amongst you would like to believe. Is he up for the added pressure? My hunch is "yes."

 

[WelshPat]

Sam Aiken will be single covered every play every game. It is the same with Pierre Garcon in Indy. Defenses will challenge Aiken to beat them just like everyone does with Garcon.

I think it's too much to ask for from him consistantly.