Derrick Harvey #1 pick?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BRiZ, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    According to both Chris Mortenson and Adam Shefter, who reported it 2day and made it clear that there are no plans 2 talk contracts with Matt Ryan.

    Mort did say on SC that Chris, Gholston and a shocker in Derrick Harvey are schedules 2 have contract talks with Parcells in the upcoming weeks, but the fact that Jake Long was 1st, shows a lot of serious interest and ahead of the list.

    Now that would really shake up the draft. But i could see Parcells being interested in him cause he likes those pass rushing olb types.
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    Harvey is a poor man's Jason Taylor. No way does he belong in the #1 pick.
  3. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

    Of course the Pats won't be interested in him at #7 (or as their tradedown pick) -- correct? :cool:
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    It's hard to say. He doesn't seem to have the right size/makeup to play for the Pats. Havervey is too small for a 3-4 DE and too big and slow for a 3-4 OLB. But the Patriots have made controversial picks before, most of them tend to work out. You never know with BB.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
  5. TheKraftyOne

    TheKraftyOne Practice Squad Player

    Harvey is my pick at #7 and has been for a while. I don't think he lacks speed for the OLB spot. He's faster than Colvin ever was and Vrabel has been for at least the last three years anyway. He can get after the Qb and that's what they need BIG TIME. All the D-backs get better with a good rush too. He doesn't have the upper body strength of McGinest but he's got enough power and athleticism to play the spot.
  6. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

    At 271 lbs, Harvey ran a 4.84 and 4.94 at the combine 40. Colvin ran a 4.89. But Colvin showed elite lower body explosion, jumling 39". Harvey jumped 28.5". Even if you add 3" to compensate for the new VJ testing equipment at the combine, that is still a poor result.

    I understand that measurables aren't everything. But drafting in the top 10, don't you want your elite prospects to test to an elite level? Unless Harvey loses weight and regains his quickness, he is not an elite 3-4 OLB prospect.

    As far as the Dolphins...

    I read they are playing a 3-4 going forward. If that is the case, maybe they project Harvey to bulk up even more, like Jarvis Green, and play 3-4 DE. Either way, this makes no sense to me.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2008
  7. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    I agree Krafty, there is a perception that the Pats need OLBs who can cover TEs or RBs. They ask the OLBs to rush the passer and drop into the flat, with the premium being the ability to rush the passer.

    All of their OLBs have been slow (Colvin 4.9, before broken hip, Vrabel 4.8 ten years ago, McGinest old & slow). Despite being slow they were all productive.

    Parcells looks like my grandma when she got old and we couldn't tell if she was a man or a woman. Chucky Parcells may look terrible but he has also drafted well, his opinions speak volumes about the top players in the draft.
  8. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I'm fine with Harvey's speed moving forward toward the QB. The worry areas with him are quickness in change of direction and backpedal, which are reported as his weaknesses (and backed up by pedestrian shuttle and cone times). That makes him an awfully risky projection to OLB for a top-10 pick, IMO.
  9. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

    Everyone loses their fastball eventually. J. Long IMO is not a franchise altering player. He is a good player, a safe pick. But it smacks of a GM afraid to fail more than one seizing an opportunity.
  10. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

    Colvin was faster than 4.9. He just timed slow, had good explosion, and was somewhat agile for his size.

    Also, either Colvin or Vrabel could be seen 20 yards downfield covering RB's and TE's, depending on the particular defensive call, and opponent. Vrabel and Colvin didn't have to do as much of this with AD on the field in 2007, but I'm sure the Patriots would like to find OLB's who are also capable covering some ground in pass coverage.

    On a side note, I almost think some fans believe the Patriots are suddenly going to start running a Bum Phillips rush happy 34, and abandon what they've been doing for years.
  11. TheKraftyOne

    TheKraftyOne Practice Squad Player

    Harvey looked like an OLB to me and showed excellent athleticism at the combine doing drills. He's been timed in the 4.7s before and has a lot going for him. He's a worthy selection IMO and just what they need. I hope they take Harvey and Cliff Avril later but if they get just one of them I'll be happy.

    Analysis of Harvey:

    Positives: Has an ideal wing span (82 inches) with a tall frame and room to carry at least another 15 pounds of bulk...Displays lean muscle development, tight waist and hips and strong thighs and calves...Consistent pass rusher who can turn at full speed and chase down the ballcarrier on the outside...Must be accounted for and game planned by the opponent due to his sudden burst coming off the edge...When he keeps his hands active and uses his long reach, he can easily play off blocks...Flashes very good short-area acceleration and good leaping ability to impact the passing game at the line of scrimmage...Has good agility, balance and flexibility closing on the pocket...Plays with a consistent motor and won't give up on plays, despite usually being outweighed by over 50 pounds vs. his opponents (in 2007, his primary blocker averaged 311 pounds)...Not loud or vocal, letting his action due the talking, he displays a good work ethic...Has no problem making game-time mental adjustments, as he is alert to blocking schemes, slipping past trash...Has the mental ability to take plays from the chalkboard to the playing field...Is seldom faked out, as he reads and reacts to the play with good vision and shows urgency closing on the ball...Combines explosive quickness with adequate playing strength...Moves well off the snap and gets his best production when he beats the offensive tackle with quickness...Has outstanding timed speed coming off the edge and will stand up some, as well as play in a two-point stance, gaining good advantage by pinning the blocker's ears back with his quick-twitch movement...Quick reactor who takes proper angles attacking from the backside...Is consistently the first defensive lineman off the snap, showing the speed to come off the corner and pressure the pocket...High-energy type with good vision to locate the ball on the move...Sees plays develop and shows good patience while containing in attempts to shut down the reverse...Reacts quickly to block pressure, but does not change direction well in a crowd as he does in the open...When he has an unimpeded line to the ball, he closes with force and suddenness...Able to shed and make plays vs. the tight end, but even when he's overmatched vs. an offensive tackle, he will give full effort until the whistle...Able to neutralize one-on-one blocks, but is not a two-gap player that can handle double teams on a steady basis...Capable of playing with leverage and can get his hands into the tight end, stand the opponent up and shed, but will get rerouted vs. the bigger offensive tackles...Has the athletic ability to move laterally in pursuit and always gives a consistent effort on the chase from the backside...Takes good angles to the ball and flashes a good short-area burst...Could do a better job of securing tackles with his arms, as he lets a few ballcarriers get away, but he is an explosive form tackler when closing on the quarterback...Will throw his body around to make the play and what he does best is apply constant pressure on the pocket with his upfield burst and smooth hips...Shows a good rip, swim, counter and bull-rush move, with the ability to dip turning the corner...Has good hand placement on the blocker, but needs to use those hands better to prevent from being cut blocked...When he uses his hands and reach properly, he can gain separation, control and get off blocks...Has the speed to close the deal coming off twists and games and when he breaks free from the block, he takes dead aim on the passer...Has the hunger you want in a pass rusher when closing.
  12. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I do not think we need someone that can cover backs and TE's as a rookie. That can be taught over a two to three year period. They did it with Vrabel and Bruschi, they can do it with an OLB/DE.

    What we need is someone who is super sudden and can create pressure/sacks/hurries in order to get the defense off the field on third and 5 plus yards to go.

    The defensive secondary is not going to be nearly as good in 2008, despite the presence of Capers, so getting pressure up front is going to be a must.

    We can't expect Seymour to magically be the player he was 3-4 years ago. Injuries have taken a toll on his body. Therefore Warren will get extra attention from blockers. That leaves pressure to come from the outside.

    And as everybody knows on this board, except DaBruinz (because he's never played the game before and has no real idea how to even load a thigh pad in a pair of football pants rightside up) , OL pass blocking reads are inside to outisde, so we have to have a pass rusher that is iltra sudden with his first step and has the speed get around the corner and make a play.
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Do you believe this as well?

    I might be in that category - after seeing what Belichick has done with the offense in the past few years, and how quickly and willingly he is to adapt, I'm guessing he'll do the same on the defensive side of the ball. On offense, he went pass-heavy seeing that the NFL was headed that way, so I wouldn't be surprised if he went pass-rush-heavy on D seeing that as the natural progression as well.
  14. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    How do you figure this? Last season we had Sanders playing out of position at FS and Hobbs battling two injuries. Presumably - and yes its an if - Meriweather at FS changes this secondary quite a bit, and for the better, and probably offsets the loss of Asante, not to mention what a healthy Hobbs might do for the secondary.
  15. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    well everyone needs to forget about Harvey, there is -zero- chance the Pats draft him, they wont even consider him. He is a 4-3 defensive end and would be a very poor 3-4 OLB in the Pats system. Not gunna happen.

    We need cornerbacks anyways, doesnt matter if you have a pass rush when teams can throw the ball on you all day. Freakin Hobbs is our only CB! lol
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey


    Now that is one WEIRD statement.
  17. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    I have been hearing the same talk about a 'pressure' defense, I don't see much changing. I think Harvey could play a role similar to Vrabel and McGinest, and then maybe they add a guy like Avril, Keglar or Robertson for more of a Colvin type role.

    Anyway, I think Harvey could be a good pick but if they don't draft him I am sure the player they take will be very good, benefit of picking in the top ten.
  18. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #18 Jersey

    Are you certain Harvey is capable of playing in coverage, though? Analysts have said Groves, Long, and Gholston are all athletic enough to cover TEs, which is an important part of the Patriots' schemes.

    For what it's worth, here's is Sporting News' breakdown of Harvey:

    Strengths: Is a good athlete, with the quickness and explosiveness to beat offensive tackles around the corner. When keeping knees bent, shows quickness and agility to change directions quickly. Beats pass blocks when aggressive; uses quick arm-over move to come back underneath after pushing blockers upfield. Shows better strength than expected against tight end run blocks when using good leverage and hands. Accelerates to full speed fast, and shows the speed to track down plays.

    Weaknesses: Is thin, lacking the bulk and strength to hold his ground at the point of attack; gets driven off the line once offensive linemen lock up on him. Does not see side blocks coming. Does not protect legs from cut blocks. Does not consistently pass rush aggressively, getting too upright. Struggles to shed pass blocks.

    Bottom line: Although Harvey, a junior, could have improved his skills a lot by returning to Florida but might not have improved his draft stock much. He will perform well in pre-draft workouts and be selected higher than he should be because of his athleticism and speed. Harvey, however, has a long way to go to maximize his talents. He is best suited to be a pass-rush specialist, but with added weight and greater intensity could become an NFL starter.

    Frankly, doesn't sound like a guy worthy of the #7 overall pick to me.
  19. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
  20. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I agree, Sanders is more a SS than a FS, but I doubt veteran freiendly BB is going to put Rodney on the bench for Sanders, even though Rodney is a year older and declining very rapidly; and I doubt very seriously that Merriweather, even though he should be improved in year 2, can beat out Sanders.

    Healthy or not, Hobbs gives big cushions for underneath stuff. Whoever starts at CB opposite Hobbs is not going to be as good in our defense as Samuel was.

    Therefore with Rodney declining and an unknown, maybe even a rookie starter opposite Hobbs, I can not imagine this secondary being as good as last seasons.

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