Depth

[JoeSixPat]

Today's Felger article makes points worth noting, but in many ways Felger doesn't show a lot of depth in reporting

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=151484

Depth is an issue, no doubt about it, but Felger's view is very superficial IMO. Much of the veteran "depth" lost was just getting too old or were no longer effective - some never were.

We're supposed to reminisce about the good old days when we had JJ Stokes for depth at WR? And that's the best he could do for veteran WR depth that we no longer have?

So Roman Phifer and Ted Johnson retired. Not too much you can do about that, and this season, with the cap spending frenzy, the competition for quality veteran depth was extremely high and we'd have had to overspend.

IMO, it seems the coaching staff feels there are a lot of young players, who, while they are not marquis names, have a lot of potential to one day be well-known veteran names...

Meanwhile, I think Felger completely overlooks the way that BB built this team's depth in the first place. Look back to 2000/2001 - we're in salary cap hell and can't be FA players. BB scans the waiver wires throughout camp and brings in a lot of quality guys who understand his system and veteran cuts from other teams on the cheap. Many of those guys wound up being quality players who were here for a number of years.

Once our own camp competition is over I'd expect BB to be a VERY active player in that market again this season, giving us quality depth once again - the difference being, unlike 2000/2001 - right now we've got SB caliber starters.

So a little more insight from Felger would have been nice IMO but I suppose I shouldn't expect too much.

 

[JR4]

Today's Felger article makes points worth noting, but in many ways Felger doesn't show a lot of depth in reporting

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=151484

.......

Once our own camp competition is over I'd expect BB to be a VERY active player in that market again this season, giving us quality depth once again - the difference being, unlike 2000/2001 - right now we've got SB caliber starters.
.......

I admire your ability to think positive but really????

After camp he going to get quality depth and bring them in and get them
upto speed? And if your talking LB guys for depth which is a serious problem
how can they learn his complicated system and do well with just a few
weeks of preparation?
Another question is where is he going to get this quality depth?
If it exist, why has he not brought it in by now when they got 13M according
to that article?

I think what you see for the most part is what the the team will be.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I admire your ability to think positive but really????

After camp he going to get quality depth and bring them in and get them
upto speed? And if your talking LB guys for depth which is a serious problem
how can they learn his complicated system and do well with just a few
weeks of preparation?

Another question is where is he going to get this quality depth?
If it exist, why has he not brought it in by now when they got 13M according
to that article?

I think what you see for the most part is what the the team will be.

First of all "up to speed" is relative.

How many starting positions do you expect to be unfilled by the end of camp? None? Yeah, me too.

So we're talking about quality backup depth that comes into play late in the season - usually after, God forbid, an injury or when players just suffer more wear and tear.

I'm not sure why you would think its impossible to get a guy up to speed over the course of a 4 month NFL regular season.

We have one month before the start of the season right now. Unless you think that no player in camp right now can be ready for September, ask yourself if you think a player signed in late August be adquately familiar with a systemb by October or November? Of course he can!

Second of all, BB wouldn't take a guy who's never, say, played a 3-4 alignment before and expect to bring him in and teach him a new position. That's just common sense. He's going to bring in players who have a fundamental understanding of the defense or offense he's playing.

I think you missed the entire point if you're asking why he doesn't sign those guys right now. Unlike other years when there were plenty of unsigned FAs even this late into the pre-season this year the FA market was much more active leaving very few players unsigned (less than 100 as of June)

That's a main reason why I expect that camp cuts will offer more quality than in other years. Teams had more money to bring in FAs to compete but can't keep them all on the roster.

And I'm sure you don't need me to explain why BB can't sign a guy who hasn't yet been cut.

So yes, I firmly believe that the quality of camp cuts by other teams this year will be among the best ever seen - and as was done in 2000/2001 BB will find players who can play important roles, provide quality depth, and possibly grow into major contributors.

 

[JR4]

First of all "up to speed" is relative.

How many starting positions do you expect to be unfilled by the end of camp? None? Yeah, me too.

So we're talking about quality backup depth that comes into play late in the season - usually after, God forbid, an injury or when players just suffer more wear and tear.

I'm not sure why you would think its impossible to get a guy up to speed over the course of a 4 month NFL regular season.

We have one month before the start of the season right now. Unless you think that no player in camp right now can be ready for September, ask yourself if you think a player signed in late August be adquately familiar with a systemb by October or November? Of course he can!

Second of all, BB wouldn't take a guy who's never, say, played a 3-4 alignment before and expect to bring him in and teach him a new position. That's just common sense. He's going to bring in players who have a fundamental understanding of the defense or offense he's playing.

I think you missed the entire point if you're asking why he doesn't sign those guys right now. Unlike other years when there were plenty of unsigned FAs even this late into the pre-season this year the FA market was much more active leaving very few players unsigned (less than 100 as of June)

That's a main reason why I expect that camp cuts will offer more quality than in other years. Teams had more money to bring in FAs to compete but can't keep them all on the roster.

And I'm sure you don't need me to explain why BB can't sign a guy who hasn't yet been cut.

So yes, I firmly believe that the quality of camp cuts by other teams this year will be among the best ever seen - and as was done in 2000/2001 BB will find players who can play important roles, provide quality depth, and possibly grow into major contributors.

Sure it is possible to find some quality backup in late August and have them
ready for November. But I guess my sense of urgency this year is due in part
to the schedule. PATs will play each of their Division opponents in the
first 5 weeks. If PATs are having to use poor quality depth because of
injuries or hold outs in Spetember then it is not a stretch to condsider they
could lose division games, This could lead to losing the division.

Right now significant injured players include
Bruschi, Beisel, Harrison, J.Green, Hawkins, Jackson, Graham, Koppen.

And there is the hold out potential of Branch and there are reports
saying he won't give in and won't report until week 10

Now that doesn' mean PATs can field a good team. But it represents
a lot of top talent.

It means a potential WR core of Caldwell and Brown as #1 and #2.

Without quality backups PATs have a greater potential to lose some early
games ands several of those early games are division games.
This is my concern about Depth.

 

[pats1]

Sure it is possible to find some quality backup in late August and have them
ready for November. But I guess my sense of urgency this year is due in part
to the schedule. PATs will play each of their Division opponents in the
first 5 weeks. If PATs are having to use poor quality depth because of
injuries or hold outs in Spetember then it is not a stretch to condsider they
could lose division games, This could lead to losing the division.

Right now significant injured players include
Bruschi, Beisel, Harrison, J.Green, Hawkins, Jackson, Graham, Koppen.

And there is the hold out potential of Branch and there are reports
saying he won't give in and won't report until week 10

Now that doesn' mean PATs can field a good team. But it represents
a lot of top talent.

It means a potential WR core of Caldwell and Brown as #1 and #2.

Without quality backups PATs have a greater potential to lose some early
games ands several of those early games are division games.
This is my concern about Depth.

C'mon. Do you realistically think the Pats will be without any of the above names, with the exception of Harrison ( :does sign of cross, begs for PATSNUTSme's mercy: ) will miss any regular season time? As it was said by Seymour and echoed by others on this board, most of these players would be playing if there was a regular season game this week.

Since none of these preseason games matter, it's best to take any precautions necessary and withold the players from practicing to give them time to heal and be ready for the regular season.

I seriously, seriously doubt Branch's holdout will last until Week 10, nevermind the regular season. That's almost unheard of.


Now tell me, JR4. Are you just having a good time screwing with us and laughing in the background, or are these your actual opinions?

 

[BelichickFan]

It just depends on what position you look at.

If you look at Safety or TE or CB or RB we have better depth than ever IMO. CB we don't have the frontline starter that Law was, same at Safety until Harrison is back but the depth is fine.

And once Branch is back I wouldn't trade last year's WR corps for this. Caldwell and Jackson > Givens and Davis.

DL ? We haven't lost anyone but have brought in good potential for backups.

I mentioned RB before, instead of Faulk and Pass going in when Dillon's out, that Maroney dude will go in.

OL depth is bette than ever.

He's right about LB. Good job, Felger, you weren't wrong about everything.

 

[JR4]

C'mon. Do you realistically think the Pats will be without any of the above names, with the exception of Harrison ( :does sign of cross, begs for PATSNUTSme's mercy: ) will miss any regular season time?
.............................

I seriously, seriously doubt Branch's holdout will last until Week 10, nevermind the regular season. That's almost unheard of.

.....

I do not know the extent of Bruschi's injury or Greens. I do not know
how bad Grahams shoulders are messed up.
I do know I have thought injuries insignificant in previous years only to
be wrong. So I am taking the low road here and assuming they won't
With that perspective I see reason for concern..... not alarm please note
their is a difference.

 

[BelichickFan]

I do not know how bad Grahams shoulders are messed up.

Let's say Graham is out for the year. I'd put money on Dave Thomas doing a better job than Christian Fauria or previous backups. It would be a shame, but that's what you call depth.

 

[JR4]

Let's say Graham is out for the year. I'd put money on Dave Thomas doing a better job than Christian Fauria or previous backups. It would be a shame, but that's what you call depth.

Like Belichick said Depth? .... talk to me in November/December about depth.
There can be apparent depth in September but that may disappear
by November or December. What is worst is ....to have to tap the depth
of the roster for starters before the season begins!

 

[pats1]

Like Belichick said Depth? .... talk to me in November/December about depth.
There can be apparent depth in September but that may disappear
by November or December. What is worst is ....to have to tap the depth
of the roster for starters before the season begins!

I agree, that is worse.

Too bad the Pats haven't needed to do that yet.

 

[BelichickFan]

Like Belichick said Depth? .... talk to me in November/December about depth.

All we can have is depth going into the season, there is a 53 man limit, you know. Last year we had, using TE, Watson, Graham, Fauria. This year we have Watson, Graham, Thomas. The depth is fine, we can't keep 5 TE. If some are hurt, we have to scramble like any team, any year.

 

[RayClay]

He's right on until he mentions DLine. We've got LOTS of competition for very little work.

How much do we need backing up 4 20 something possible pro bowlers, (OK I'm puffing Jarvis a little, but who knows given the chance?).

I wish we had as good competition at LB.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Let's say Graham is out for the year. I'd put money on Dave Thomas doing a better job than Christian Fauria or previous backups. It would be a shame, but that's what you call depth.

C'mon BBF, Thomas is a rookie with good hands, Fauria was cagey vet with okay hands. For all the complaints about Fauria's blocking, he got the job done more often than not - go back and look at the Cory Dillon TD at Pittsburgh, Fauria was locked up in the middle of the line with a defender allowing Cory to screen behind him into the open lane. Thomas looks to have better hands, but he is an investment in the future who will not give us the same overall level of play 'this season' that we might have expected from Fauria. BB is sacrificing vet depth for future talent, easy to do with Graham and Watson ahead of Thomas on the depth chart.