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Democracy: Tyranny by the Poor and Lower Middle Class and Elderly

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. State

    State Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

    All at the point of a gun. Source Obama's Policies Would Redistribute Nearly $1 Trillion in Wealth Every Year

    I wish more of us would read _The Law_ by Frederic Bastiat, who writes of the "Fatal Tendency" of mankind:
    Maybe I'm getting too philosophical.

    HT: ANOTHER FACT FOR YOUR LIBERAL FRIENDS
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    We should all clearly understand one point: it is by and large NOT the poor or the lower middle class or the elderly who are the Prime Movers of this tyranny; it is the opportunistic politicians who want to make these under-class individuals their vassals; it's called the "Welfare Plantation".

    Those pols who have made their living out of taking funds from those who work and giving those funds to those who won't work are the ones responsible for this huge and ever-growing threat to America's independence. Yes, even America's ability to live free from foreign dictates is now in question simply because the Congress -- often by presidential prodding -- has now been compromised. See the thread on China's growing role in the American economy via the enormous debt the U.S. now owes to China, some $2 to 5 TRILLION. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...76054-finally-bill-comes-due.html#post1520544

    Before anyone gets too outraged at those who are receiving all the freebies and give-aways of tax-payers' hard won earnings, look first at the politicians who are passing the crippling legislation that gives away all your hard-won earnings. It's the left-wing pols who are doing this. Their goal is to turn America into a welfare state, much like Britain. Think: who respects Britain in the world?? China?? Russia?? Cuba?? Chavez?? Zelaya?? Ahmedinejad?? Kim Jongil??

    Is that what you want America to become?? I know I don't.

    //
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    “The top-earning 40 percent of families will transfer $826 billion to the bottom 60 percent in 2012."

    How funny that conservatives don't seem to understand the very basics of capitalism. In our system, the bottom 60% transfer close to 100% of their income to the top 40%. That's a big part of the reason that the top 40% get to be the top 40%. Capitalism redistributes wealth through a mechanism called "profits," which in a sense are taxes. Those profits are redistributed to employees and especially shareholders. The money gets redistributed yet again through a system called "taxation." Then the cycle repeats itself.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The beginning of a collapse, take from the Rich give to the Poor then the Rich will leave the poor will stay but will have no Rich to work for or no Rich to shower them with "welfare"
    COLLAPSE (the third world has finally arrived)

    GOD BE WITH YOU ALL

    The green grove is gone from the hill Maggie
    Where first the daisies sprung
    The creaking old mill is still Maggie
    Since you and I were young

    SO LONG AMERICA IT WAS GREAT WHILE IT LASTED

    DOESN'T MICHELLE HAVE FIRM ARMS AND BARACK HAS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL SMILE

    AMERICA AMERICA GOD SHED HIS GRACE ON THEE

    OH LORD, SOMEBODY STOP ME
  5. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Please explain to me how the bottom 60% transfer a 100% of their income to the top 40%.
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You earn based on value provided, no one forces you to buy their products, government are the only ones who seize money by coercion. You sir have no understand of capitalism as a socialist.

    If you would like to become educated on the topic I would suggest the VonMises institute or Cato Institute, or try the Freedom to Choose videos from Milton Freidman that are being streamed online of you are interested.


    As M Thatcher said: "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money".
  7. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    considering the rate of dissavings in this country, that figure is actually more than 100%.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The numbers are rough, and it's probably a smaller number than the bottom 60%, but a large number of people live from paycheck to paycheck, spending all their money on necessities (and maybe a few luxuries when they can). They buy stuff and services, which are marked up, which result in profits to the company, which results in profits to the shareholders.
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    M THATCHER, American Liberals hate her just as they do Reagan/Bush.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think human nature forces people to eat, clothe themselves, have shelter, go to the doctor, take care of their kids, etc. It's the coercive part of nature, I suppose one could say. No one forces a wealthy person to live in the U.S. Many have left for economic reasons or because they don't want to pay into the war machine or because they want to smoke pot. (I once had a landlord who sold his house, and moved to Barbados where he said he could live with his family, and just lay on the beach and get high every day.)

    You are right that government has coercive powers (just as a food market has for hungry or a landlord for those needing shelter), but those coercive powers are democratically derived and in general most people favor a military, interstate highways, prisons, police, and so on. Those things cost money, and I don't think a voluntary system would work. In short, you have to pay to live in any developed country. You might want to be a freeloader, but unfortunately for you many of the things you apparently take for granted you have to pay for.

    I've never benefited from my car insurance, but I've had it for over 30 years. It's just the price of civilization.

    As far as Cato and VonMises go, no thanks. I've read a few of their articles over the years, but I generally disagree with them. I do not regard capitalism as a religion, as they seem to (especially Cato, like the Heritage Foundation). It's merely the best tool available for running an advanced nation, provided there's an effective way to implement that tool, and the most effective way is taxation.
  11. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I'm so surprised that the right is anti-democracy. :rolleyes:

    Of course, getting the lower middle class to be "vassals" for corporations and the power elite through religion, racism and general ignorance in order to maintain an exploitatative staus quo is democracy in action....
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can grow your own food, or choose where to buy you food, what food to buy and so on with no coercion involved sorry this escapes you. Most of the billions of people who have ever lives never visited a medical doctor or hospital. No coercion to do so (until Obamacare makes it illegal to not have health insurance.)
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are the one who is supporting a person attempt to stay in office illegally. What would your position be if Bush had tried to prevent the election or stay in office past his 2nd term?

    I would opposed it.

    This situation is no different,.

    Why are yo and why do you think the Administration is supporting a communist trying to stay in office illegally, because he is a communist?

    Will you support Obama if he tries to stay in office illegally because he is a leftist?


    Why should I be coerced to buy health ins?
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you an anarchist? You don't think we need a defense, an SEC, a banking system. Do you favor barter? Do you think we need interstate highways? Do you think we need courts? Police? Firemen? Do you think that we should only be coerced into paying for what you think we need, or do you accept that we're a democratic society and that different eras and generations have different attitudes towards what's needed?

    Also, if you earn under around $4000/year you don't have to pay taxes, so the same person you are talking about who chooses to homestead somewhere can also choose legally to pay no taxes. So, you're point isn't really accurate. If you don't want to buy food, you can grow. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can earn an amount below the threshhold. In fact, I don't even think you have to fill out tax forms if you earn under ~$4000.
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think I should be forced to buy health insurance. I think government should only do things an individual can't and only do the thing explicitly stated in the constitution. Health care and most of what the feds do doesn't meet that standard.
  16. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    No, actually it's completely different since Zelaya did none of those things. He issued a non-binding poll about having a referendum that would still need 2/3 of congress' approval. Have you ever actually read anything about this issue before or are you just regurgitating what your talking heads have told you to think like usual?

    Why are you a child molester?

    I do not now nor have I ever supported Obama. But I wouldn't support his overthrow by the military simply for issuing a poll. Same with Bush, but you know, unlike you and your ilk I actually like Democracy.


    You shouldn't. In fact, please don't.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ever since that tyrannical proposition that "all men are created equal," it's been downhill.

    Tyrants like Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, et al. consistently clothed their leftist plots in rhetoric invoking "freedom" and "liberty," when in fact the freest state of affairs one could conceive would be an absolute monarchy with no social mobility. It's the liberals in Parliament that screwed up everything. They forced the king to tax the colonists mercilessly to feed their unending masses of tyrannical poor. The more countries the king tried to benevolently rule without tyrannical social mobility, the more the poor oppressed the rich by trying to eat three times a day.

    The problem, of course, was that the mother country kept imposing taxes because the poor in the eighteenth century British Empire were already well on the way to soaking the benevolent royalty into the poor house, or poor palace, I suppose, in their case. If it were up to the Royal Family, everything would have been fine, but the Parliament had too much power.

    Unbelievable leftist tyrants in this country advocated a belief that all the people had rights and actually encouraged popular participation in the government. With their upside-down logic they kicked out their monarch in favor of the ordinary citizen... all the while (infuriatingly) waving flags with slogans such as "don't tread on me," which everybody knows is supposed to mean "don't tread on my money." I've been meaning to tell that to a biker or two but I am sure he would back up his tyrannical misappropriation of said flag with coercion.

    All in all the world's been going to hell in a handbasket since the first poor, hungry, downtrodden masses noticed they could depose the local hydraulic dictator and get into the grain storehouse instead of properly starving.

    :rolleyes:

    PFnV
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    How do you feel about being forced into buying auto insurance? Or flood insurance on your house if you live in a flood zone? Or homeowner's insurance if you have a mortgage?

    Same damn thing.
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps he wants to be one of those freeloaders who simply goes to a public health clinic or an emergency room where they have to treat him even if he brings no identification!
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I understand if he presents with no ID or one from Mexico they use special gold-plated syringes to give him his favorite narcotic free of charge (no wait, they PAY him to take it!)

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