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Democracy is dead ... lobbyists rule America

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Here's an article ripe for discussion.

    Paul B. Farrell: Democracy is dead: new Lobbyist Nation rules - MarketWatch

     
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    .......................
     
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh well ... we have Obama ... he will save us :bricks:
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What do the lobbyist do?


    They lobby to have the government give them taxpayer money, to buy protection from the government in the form of tax breaks and regulations favorable to them and unfavorable to their competitors.


    If you want to fix the system their are a few thing that would help:


    1) A Flat tax, no more tax breaks for politicans to dispense.

    2) Cut government spending to the areas specified in the constitution, fewer $$$ for lobbyist to get from corrupt officals.

    Neither of these are in the interest of professional politicans since this is thier source of power and politicans are people who lust for power.
     
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Also, there are too many states. Please eliminate 3."

    13, the flat tax is not passable, and it's not workable. As to the Bold New Idea for the 18th Century, they didn't have highways and jet planes back then, sport. They had 18th century medicine. They had no need for government to advance science, because experimentation was at the dissect-a-dog-in-the-basement level.

    Our forefathers had a firm grasp of their present. I suggest you develop same. They also had the foresight to acknowledge that it's up to us to develop their fledgling republic, and many of them saw that it needed to develop beyond their own limited capabilities (for instance, they understood slavery had to go, but were unable to get rid of it at the outset.)

    This is the response of someone who hears "lobbyists have too much power over government" and comes to the conclusion that the root problem is we have a government.

    Not a particularly well-thought-out response.

    PFnV
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The flat tax is not possible, due to elected officals knowing it would cut into their power to give away moeny and favors.


    I am glad you are OK with the corruption we see now, I suppose as a government employee involved in busy work you view the bloated bureauracy as a source of job security.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Took you about 12 seconds to get to the ad hom level this time. I'm afraid your condition is deteriorating.

    Right. So who did the founding fathers have assigning radio frequencies? What did the constitution say would be the best way to regulate airspace, or for that matter, air carriers? Did the departments of state, war, and treasury have any initial policy having to do with mad cow disease? Are we better off without the USDA?

    This "3 original cabinet departments" rot is just silly. It's not thought through. It's also not achievable even if it were desirable.

    It's dumb, we're done.

    PFnV
     
  8. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    just as well thought out as your reasoning against the flat tax
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IOW you can provide no reason why a Falt tax won't couldn't work.

    You original post was an ad hom, you are right we are done.
     
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fairly well documented that the lobbyists and their employers are fueling most of the rage against the health care reform.. take it or leave the legislation, they have the most to loose.

    They coupled with the war profiteers, make the situation difficult...
     
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    It's not just a domestic problem...it's global:

    Indian Business Plans to Use Expatriates as Nuclear Lobbyists

    "...A lobbying group with ties to the Confederation of Indian Industry plans to send as many as 100,000 e-mails next week to people of Indian origin living in countries ranging from Norway to New Zealand, according to a statement. The e-mail will urge recipients to tout the accord to politicians, newspapers and influential groups in their adopted homelands.

    By lobbying in their home countries, ``people of Indian origin can make a landmark contribution to India's energy security,'' the lobbying initiative, called the Nuclear Suppliers Group Campaign for India, said on its Web site. Energy-starved India would gain access to American nuclear power plant technology and fuel under the U.S.-India accord.

    The effort is aimed at swaying countries that belong to the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a 45-nation forum dedicated to limiting the spread of atomic weapons. The NSG would have to loosen its export controls to approve the accord, a step that requires the agreement of all members, including holdouts such as China, Austria, Sweden and Ireland."


    Indian Business Plans to Use Expatriates as Nuclear Lobbyists - Bloomberg.com
     
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well now, there is after all a solution to this.

    You decouple speech from fundraising.

    The usual cry goes up that funding causes, issue ads, etc etc etc, is "freedom of speech."

    Get the money out of campaigning. Make television do what they once thought it was supposed to do: donate air time for public service. If you want to win a primary, go door to door and convince people ("oh no we don't want your money. We're volunteers too. We just want your vote.") If you want to win a general election, well, your local and national news should have to donate an hour of air time a week to any candidate who wins a place on the ballot.

    See, I can come up with unworkable and ideologically pure solutions too :)

    But at least this gets at the actual problem, the money-for-influence virus. If they don't need campaign funds, you cut the problem down to the petty crooks who just want their houses built cheap or whatever. You can get at those through plain old fraud prosecutions. The main issue isn't people breaking the law, it's people not having to break the law. There oughtta be one.

    But to make one that works, we have to admit to ourselves that free speech does not mean money talks.

    PFnV
     
  13. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Were we ever really a democracy? :confused:
     

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