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Defensive Thoughts - Week 6

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MrNathanDrake, Oct 17, 2011.

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  1. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    -Kyle Arrington is our most underrated player. He has 4 INTs on the season and led the team in tackles today. After 2nd rd bust Wheatley, 2nd rd bust Darius Butler, and 4th rd bust Jon Wilhite, we finally found a solid second CB through UDFA. No, he's not a Pro Bowler. But he's a solid Corner that I've yet to really see get "picked on" by QBs the same way those 3 busts did in New England.

    -Our defense is completely different with Haynesworth in the game. He occupied 3 blockers at times which freed up Carter to get one-on-one with the Lineman and get a sack.

    -Brandon Spikes had his coming out party this week. He seems to be flourishing without Mayo on the field. He's stepping up and making plays. He blitzed really well today. Spikes brings everything to the defense that Mayo doesnt... Vocal Leadership, Emotion, and Energy.

    -Kyle Love is better than I thought. And much like Spikes, he enjoys getting the crowd involved. He's looking the part of an NFL DT every game.

    -Gerard Warren never should've been cut. I said it when he was cut, and I'm saying it again. He proved me right today when he made some good stops at the LOS.

    -Gary Guyton still looks lost on the field. He's had enough time to adapt to the NFL. I give up on him at this point. If he hasn't "got it" by now, he never will. Anyone else notice that play when he stood there and let Witten run right by him?

    -Leigh Bodden has seriously fallen off. He was a good #1 CB for us in 2009. I thought he'd be a decent #3 CB for us this year but he hasn't done much at all. Perhaps he's still getting his legs under him after sitting out all of last season, but right now he's a disappointment. I hope he can get it together by playoff time.

    -Andre Carter was beasting. Besides his 2 crucial sacks, his pass rush caused the INT that Romo threw early in the game.


    -This one isnt defensive related, but Stevan Ridley is NOT a Kick Returner! He's a downfield runner with a short range burst. He'll shed a couple tackles, but he isnt that open field runner who makes a bunch of people miss. There's no doubt in my mind that Brandon Tate could've contributed more to our team than someone like Tarapian.


    Overall a solid performance by the defense today. Holding the Cowboys to 16 points. And some of those points came off shortened field due to offenses turn overs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  2. DarrylS

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    I agree with most of what you say, except on Guyton.. have to remember he was an udfa and our expectations should reflect that. Just like our pleasure with Arrington doing so well as an UDFA.

    Do not denigrate Mayo, he was all pro last year, and has led this team in tackles..perhaps he is not as emotional, but has done the job well for us. To gauge a player by their level of emotion is folly. Most will say that Mayo is extremely intelligent, and is one of the hardest workers on this team. I like Spikes, but they are complimentary players..
     
  3. MrNathanDrake

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    I didn't denigrate Mayo. I simply said Spikes is flourishing without Mayo on the field and brings a different energy to the D. I think that's pretty obvious and can't be argued.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  4. Gumby

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    hmmm. I read (past tense) 'BRINGS EVERYTHING TO THE DEFENSE THAT MAYO DOESNT' as a denigration.

    If 2 posters in a row read it that way; I dont think you clearly said what you say you meant.

    regardless; good if you think Spikes can synergize w/ Mayo to make the team better. as long as you arent proposing some either or argument. Mayo was a pro-bowler and usually the leading tackler.
     
  5. MrNathanDrake

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    LOL... Mayo does not bring those qualities to the Defense, Spikes does.

    That's all I meant by it so stop trying to make something out of nothing.



    Oh yeah. Anyone notice Spikes chasing down Dez Bryant from behind?? Not bad for someone who caught flack over his poor 40 times.
     
  6. DarrylS

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    INOW what you say is completely correct and there is no room for discussion..

    If you have not noticed pretty much everything on this board is argued, it is called opinions..

    You state

    That somehow this is better than what Mayo brings.. makes no sense, as this defense is complimentary in all aspects.

    Do not see Wilfork with a lot of emotion, energy or vocal leadership.. does that mean that Kyle Love who thumps his chest a lot is a better player????
     
  7. MrNathanDrake

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    Stop right there.

    You're already wrong. You're making things up. I never said it's "better" than what Mayo brings.
     
  8. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Minus the ability to use 'vocal leadership' Mayo resorted to using the lesser known, but equally effective, "psychic leadership"

    He would simply think the defense into place, and it would be so.
     
  9. smg93

    smg93 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    For what it's worth, I didn't read it as denigrating Mayo, just that Spikes brings a different personality to the field.
     
  10. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    it seems to me that now that Mayo (the unquestionable defensive leader [at least for lb's]) is out, Spikes feel more comfortable egging on the the defense, where before he may feel like he is stepping on Mayo's toes


    hopefully these last two games have shown spikes that he can be the vocal leader of the D, w/ Mayo still being the actual leader on the field, i have no problems with that because its become obvious Mayo is more of the quite guy who likes to 'show' you how its done....both types of guys are needed (though i like to see defensive players celebrate, i like it much less when its on 1st and 2nd down)
     
  11. betterthanthealternative

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    What makes me crazy is when defensive players celebrate a big hit on a plus-play for the offense. Like when a DB makes a jarring tackle on a guy who just gained 7 yards on a first down run. That's playground stuff, reflective of imposter syndrome.
     
  12. Gumby

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    agreed, but not so much from sense of imposter; but rather 'a lack of appreciation' for down-distance and what you are trying to do.

    Tackles for loss, hits for incompletes, sacks, fumbles, ints are all celebrateable. Tackles for a gain are only celebrateable on 3/4 down IF for less than a first - ........

    regardless of how big a hit it was. You can leave the guy unconscious (a la david patten); but if he still got a first down on you; you better not be happy about that.
     
  13. JackBauer

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    I think people are going to draw a causal inference from what you're saying.

    Spikes is flourishing because he's seeing the field. Period. Having Mayo next to him instead of Guyton would only improve things further.

    Haven't really seen Bodden "falling off," either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  14. SanAngeloState

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    back to the topic at hand.

    One thing about good CBs apparently is that they LIKE TO HIT. They don't dance a WR down when tacking like Butler used to. They are tough. That should be a key scouting requirement for CBs and DBs...not just "athletic ability" but a fondness for contact.

    I said Guyton was not very physical and just not that good. OF course I was stinkerbummed for it.

    Huge test with roethlessburger...very tough QB, very fast WR, etc. Hopefully their line isn't able to block ours, that will be key.
     
  15. Rob0729

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    One OT gripe I have that is defensive related but more directed to fans and the media. Why over the last three weeks when the defense has performed, people are constantly discounting what the defense accomplished by just saying the opposing offense screwed up. All I heard this morning was how Jason Garrett spit the bit and if he didn't play scared, he probably eat up the defense.

    When Welker scored that 99 yard TD pass we didn't hear all about how the Dolphins serious blew the coverage leaving Welker alone with one guy who was over matched. And even the few who did, they gave credit to Brady for seeing it and exploiting it.

    Last week all we heard was that the Jets didn't try to pass and they stupidly tried to go back to the Ground and Pound the wrong week. Except the Jets did pass more than they ran that game (although not at the same percentage as previous weeks) and it is hard to pass a lot when you go three and out seven times. And even then, many people discount the three and outs as the Jets shooting themselves in the foot rather than the Pats making plays.

    Now it is that the Cowboys played conservative or scared. Or that "this is just the Cowboys" who have a Jeckyl and Hyde offense and it was just Hyde today.

    I think a lot of people have in their mind that the Pats' defense is horrible and if they perform, it has to be something other than them. The Pats' defense has had two very good performances in a row and if you take away the 99 yard garbage time TD drive by the Riaders, that performance was good too although not nearly as good as the last two.
     
  16. Rob0729

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    Very good analysis. As I said in another thread, it looks like Haynesworth lost a lot of weight from the beginning of the season. I think that might have been a difference in his performance this past weekend. He seemed quicker and more durable.

    As for Ridley, I think he would have been an excellent kick returner before this year, but not with the new rule. The guy is fast, but you need punt return skills to be a kick returner with the new rule. That is why Edelman has been successful at it. You no loner need to be really fast, you need to make people miss you.
     
  17. Deus Irae

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    Rather than start my own thread, I thought I'd just respond to the OP in this one. Before I break it down, I should note that I thought this was the best game for the defense, not because it played great overall or anything like that, but because they overcame some major issues they were having, and because they came up huge when it was needed, with the offense really struggling. It's been a long time since I felt the defense was really capable of doing that, so they absolutely deserve kudos for that. Now, to the specifics:

    I assume you mean this on the defensive side. I'd say that Carter is the most underrated player, although I think people are coming around on him.

    I agree. With Fat Albert and Big Vince in middle, teams can't just wall off one interior player, because the other will be there to shut things down. That's a huge advantage in the 4-3.

    Spikes still has his issues, even against the run, and he sucks against the pass, but he seems to be getting back into the flow of things. If the team can get Mayo back at speed and put the duo of Spikes/Guyton back into a platoon, that should be a big help moving forward for the rest of this season.

    Kyle's been able to take advantage of teams focusing on Big Vince, which is all you can fairly ask of him at this point.

    Warren's not that good, although he looked solid today on the plays I watched him.

    I think Guyton was overthinking on a couple of plays, and that he ended up getting brainlock. Regardless, I think he's the same as he's always been, which is a sub LB who should only be in against the pass and should be upgraded.

    When teams are largely avoiding Bodden and Arrington, and throwing at McCourty, I consider that a good sign for Bodden/Arrington, and an indictment of McCourty's level of play.

    He's playing very well, and I wonder if Haynesworth/Carter will end up keeping this team in the 4-3 next season instead of going back to the 3-4 which would be better for the linebackers but would weaken that D-line.

    Tate's doing nothing for his new team. He's been no loss, IMO.

    I thought the defense was excellent against the run, weak against the pass, and really lousy with tackling (which, to the credit of that group, was generally countered by the amount of swarming the D was doing). I consider the game a step in the right direction for the defense, but Romo still put up more than 300 yards, and the secondary was once again unable to get the job done in man coverage. With a bye week to rest, and the extra time to prepare for the Steelers, I think that Pittsburgh game should be much more impressive for the defense, especially if Mayo is able to get back at a high level of health and play.
     
  18. TomPatriot

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    Guyton was in on two run stuffs in the penultimate Dallas drive to get NE the ball back. The guy had ten tackles and saved a touchdown when McCourty missed a tackle on Robinson. All against an above average NFL offense. I think everyone underestimates him; he has 19 tackles in the last two weeks.

    This defense is getting better. It held the Cowboys under their average in points and yards gained. It was also as good or better than the vaunted Jets defense against the Cowboys in week 1.
     
  19. Dessalines

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    Kind of sad that this thread degenerated into the the "Mayo was denigrated thread".... Oh well....
     
  20. Run DMC

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    We are a better D with Spikes on the field. There, I said it. :p
     
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