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Defensive line with Wilfork signed

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A) We are fine at DT and NT with Wilfork, Pryor and Brace.
    B) We are set with two starting DE's in Warren and Wright.
    C) We need to improve on Green and Burgess.
    =================================
    D) Banta-Cain should again be an important factor in pass rush situations, so we needn't expect that all the pass rush will come from the DL.
    ==================================
    E) There are lots of possibilities in the draft. We should be drafting at least one DE.
     
  2. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    If a top pass rusher can't be found in the latter part of the first round, I'm all for taking Jared Odrick there if the Patriots feel he can play like Ty Warren.
     
  3. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Saying the Patriots are set at Defensive End with Mike Wright starting is quite a statement. I like Wright, and would be fine with him at DE provided we upgrade significantly elsewhere on defense, but I have never gotten the sense that the Patriots view Wright as a starter at DE. I think they see him as a rotation/situational guy who can help at various spots along the line.
     
  4. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have to disagree that the Pats are "set" with Mike Wright stepping in at RDE. In fact, I have to say that the RDE position exacerbated the OLB issue. Especially after Green proved he couldn't handle it.

    I honestly believe that RDE and ILB are in the top 2 for the Pats draft picks. And I would be happy with Odrick or McClain at 22.
     
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    30 front: - Warren -- Wilfork -- Wright/unk
    --------- Brace -- Pryor/Brace/Grady -- Richard

    Analysis: Warren and Wilfork are proven starters, and at least borderline elite. Wright IMO is proven as a spot starter at NT, he struggles more when he's had to fill in at LDE, but I think he holds up better at RDE and will be adequate at worst.

    It's possible NE finds a primary RDE in Free Agency:
    -- RFA Barry Cofield (NYG) would be better as Ty Warren's back-up, but he's a strong run stuffer who could play either DE.
    -- UFA Jason Ferguson (MIA) is a step in the wrong direction with his age (assuming he doesn't retire), but he's a good stopgap option.
    -- UFA Le Kevin Smith (DEN) is an excellent reserve capable of playing either DE.

    The "need" is for a strong enough RDE candidate to push Wright for the job. Bruschi, the ESPN analyst, indicated Wright flashes starter quality talent, but isn't consistent enough - it looks as if the draft is the place to find someone to push him, over the hump or back to reserve status.

    40 front: - Warren -- Wilfork -- Pryor/Wright -- Banta-Cain
    ----- Woods/Davis -- Brace -- Grady/Richard -- Ninkovich/Crable

    The three Free Agents above are more than adequate in a 40 front, in this case Wright and Pryor are both starter quality three-techs who can also play the one.

    NE's strength under BB has been a multi-front defense capable of shifting on the fly. The clear priority is to find a RDE starter candidate who can challenge Wright for the job, either pushing him to fully seize the job, or back into reserve status.

    A secondary priority involves the OLBs in a 30 front, capable of playing DE in a 40 - the edge rushers.

    -- TBC clearly fits the bill.
    -- Ninkovich flashed a speed rush last season which may prove effective this season with a year of experience in the defense.
    -- Woods had three good games as an injury replacement in 2008 before his jaw was broken, he never regained that form in 2009, perhaps like TBC he needs a little more time, perhaps the broken jaw took some tone off his conditioning, what is certain is a bunch of wankers will call him a bust and worse (as if a UDFA can ever be a bust).
    -- Davis is an unknown who earned a new chance when he was re-signed.
    -- Crable is an unknown.
    -- Thomas is an unknown - trying to shoot his way out of town.

    Additional competition has been desired here for some time. NE made a bid for Peppers, but it was a foregone conclusion other teams would outbid any price NE had set on Peppers as an OLB. There may yet be a Free Agent acquisition who can help here - re-signing Burgess, Kampmen, etc., but the draft again appears the most likely place to acquire an additional edge rusher(s).
     
  6. DarrylS

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    As much as I like Mike Wright and his apparent work ethic, he is a situational player..
     
  7. PatsCanDoIt

    PatsCanDoIt Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I see Wright as a good pass rusher from any of the three spots. He gets into the backfield and forces holding calls. He just isn't able to hold up versus the run. He can handle it against weaker competition but teams like the Ravens run right through him. To continue with the 2-gap 3-4 we need a full time guy or some more guys to rotate. I think we need to draft 2 of the following. (They're all at least as tall as Jarvis Green at 6'3" and 285+)

    Charles Alexander
    Alex Carrington
    Terrence Cody
    Brandon Deaderick
    Lamaar Houston
    Clifton Geathers
    Arthur Jones
    Linval Joseph
    Mike Neal
    Jared Odrick
    Vince Oghobaase
    Corey Peters
    Jay Ross
    Lorenzo Washington
    CJ Wilson
    Al Woods
    Doug Worthington

    I like Odrick, Oghobaase, Lamaar Houston and all the East Carolina guys ;)
     
  8. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like Mike Wright, but if we're playing 3-4 and he's a starting DE, we're in trouble.
     
  9. CGH TX PATS

    CGH TX PATS Practice Squad Player

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    I felt that Mike Wright was at his best when he was a 'situational' player and not an every down player. Yes I know we gave him some money last year I believe in an extension, we've got to find a way get him back to his situational role. He's a hard worker and a good player, but there's better out there in this draft.
     
  10. chevss454

    chevss454 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Wes Bunting on the DL risers and fallers

    Combine DL prospects: Who?s up, who?s down | National Football Post

    National Football Post Front Office Total Access Pass Projections | National Football Post

    National Football Post Front Office Total Access Pass Projections | National Football Post
     
  11. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that Wright shouldn't be the fulltime starter. He's a valuable guy who can fill in from time to time, but not all the time. There are rumours about getting LeKevin back, but even if we do, we'll probably draft at least one DE.

    I'd like to see Burgess come back. He was disappointing overall, but he really came on in the last few games of the season. It may be that it took him a while to pick up the system.
     
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am absolutely fine with us drafting a DE. However, the team does consider Wright a starter. We can say that he shared the role with Green and Burgess. I am fine with that perspective also. In any case, we will re-sign or replace Green and Burgess, and add at least one OLB.
     
  13. CGH TX PATS

    CGH TX PATS Practice Squad Player

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    Well according to BB, he's the best DE that we've had (joke). I guess if we can't find anyone better than bring Burgess back but i'd rather see us get Jason Taylor opposed to bringing back Burgess.
     
  14. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought Wright played well at times for us this season and had some really strong games. Just not consistent. I think a back-up role would allow him to be more effective.

    I'm really unsure on Burgess. If his improved play at the end of the season was him finally "getting" the system, then he could be a big plus for us. But it was such a small sample size of good games that it could have been sheer luck. I really opposed the original trade for him, but now I find myself wanting him back. Not sure what to think of that.

    As for Taylor, I wonder if he'd struggle like Burgess in picking up the system. And I wonder how much he has left in the tank. But I wouldn't mind signing him to a small contract and seeing if he can fit in.

    I'd love to see McKenzie step up and play well so we could push AD outside to a pass-rushing role where he's probably more effective. I hate the AD attitude, but I don't see any real benefit in trading him, and we're not going to get much anyways. At the end of the season, I was sure he was gone. Now, I could see him staying on the team.

    Regardless of what happens, we will probably draft a DE and OLB.
     
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I have been thinking along these similar lines, but prefer the Big Elephant lineup.

    Base Defense 1st string

    DE Warren------NT Mt. Cody--------DT/DE Wilfork---|
    OLB TBC--------ILB Mayo-------ILB/OLB Guyton ----------|---DE/OLB Dunlap

    Base Defense Second String

    DE Wright-------NT Brace________DT/DE Pryor---|
    OLB Kindle or Hughes---ILB Spikes-----ILB/OLB Ninkovich----|----DE/OLB Lane

    Nickel Defense

    DE Warren-------------NT Wilfork---------DT/DE Pryor----DE/OLB Dunlap
    OLB TBC--------ILB Mayo------ILB Guyton

    Dime Defense

    DE Warren------------DT/NT Pryor------------DE/OLB Dunlap
    OLB TBC-----------ILB Mayo-------------ILB Guyton
     
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not buying. You use our ALL of our first five picks for the front seven, ignoring all other needs. And in the end, the best you can do at RDE is to have two DT/NT's as starter and backup.

    Cody, Splikes, Dunlop, Lane, Kindle/Hughes


     
  17. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You are right. I want all 5 picks to go to the front seven of the defense. At the end of the day, if we can not get off the field on third down or stop opposing teams from scoring in the red zone, it does not matter what our offense does, we will not be a SB team. The Indy/New Orleans/Baltimore games show just how pitiful our defense has become.

    But to your point if I drop Kindle/Hughes,we may have to bring back Burgess and that makes me ill just thinking about it.

    And if I drop Spikes, we may have to bring back Seau. There is nothing else on the roster capable of playing quality minutes at the ILB spot.

    BB wants big guys that can run fast. This draft got him 4 guys that fit need positions.
     
  18. Warren94

    Warren94 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Aj Edds, Angerer both from Iowa would be ideal in later rounds... being a LSU fan like jacob cutera as a potential lb in our system.
     
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Curiously, I do not disagree with your idea of drafting five defensive players with our first five picks, although I think it likely that Belichick will sign one DE in free agency, reducing the need to four players.

    I do think that we will fill our four offensive needs in free agency: #2 wr, 3rd down RB, #1 TE, and #TE. To me, this is business as usual for free agency. One or two of our needs might still be filled by 2009 players.

    My objection to your plan is that you end up with Wilfork and Pryor as DE's. Wilfork is one of the top two NT's in the NFL and Pryor is a fine backup DT. I don't think that you are willing accept that the Mount Cody express has passed us by. We have chosen to sign another $8M a year NT instead of considering Cody.

     
  20. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    There's a reason why Odrick may be the smart option at #22 -- because there's still room for a quality starter in Sey's spot -- or at least one with potential.

    And of course the DE/OLB position will be addressed. Considering the available options, round two seems likely.

    On day two, BB may also consider a CB and ILB to finish upgrading the defensive side of the ball. Safety and NT may be the only defensive positions he doesn't tap into.
     
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