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Defensive Liabilities: Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, O'Neal

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Oct 13, 2008.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Each of these players is below the mean when it comes to average NFL players at their respective position. Seymour hasn't been the same since signing his huge contract, Bruschi and Harrison have heart but their bodies can't keep up anymore, and O'Neal may be 05 Duane Starks all over again.

    The defense scares me way more than our offense right now.

    As for offense, Cassel may hold the ball too long but he is improving as a game manager and doesn't make too many killer mistakes. McDaniels is unimaginative and predictable, but so far he gets bailed out by the skill of the players he coaches.
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  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sad too because in games before tonight and absent facing a wildcat option offense they all looked to be better than average and better than many assumed. But hey, it's the what have you done for me last night crowds time to vent and rant.
  3. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    Man I love being right. To all those who called me an idiot for calling out lazy ass players like Sey, you can say sorry anytime you want!
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  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Nope, nice try, I'm not in the crowd that is saying the sky is falling, and I defend the Pats more than most in terms of how they'll do this year.

    I see a 10-6 season and would be pleased with that, I'm not a bandwagon fan and my expectations are realistic.

    But Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, and O'Neal are major liabilities on the field, sorry you're too drunk on the kool-aid to see.
  5. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    I'm sorry that you are a moronic troll with 0 football knowledge.
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    O'Neal saved the JETS game. Bruschi and Harrison were being touted as playmakers vs. SF and KC. It's just that a lot of you have ADHD and can't remember past the last thing you saw. And even then you don't understand what it represented.

    And then there are the aholes adding to your thread who only show up when they think what the other nitwits among us are saying has vindicated their previous blather...
  7. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    Really how so?

    I said Seymour has overrated / done

    Maroney was injury prone

    Jackson was a bust

    The secondary was horrid


    Looks like I was right on all counts, to bad you can't accept it chump :p Are you saying my claims are not true. Most of the board agrees with my thoughts. To bad so sad, jerky.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  8. FarScapeR

    FarScapeR Rookie

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    They stopped the run all night. I think that means the D-Line was doing it's job. Against the pass, no sacks or hits, but I think that has more to do with the entire defense. Also, losing Jarvis Green for the night didn't help.
  9. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    Ditto.........................

    Seymour talks a good game, talks about finally being healthy and how dominant he'll be, I'm still waiting for that to happen.

    He doesn't mention his bank account or the slice of pie that he has taken out of this team's Salary CAP, yet people will find a way to justify everything he does. I don't understand it.
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  10. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown Rookie

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    What about Mayo or Merriweather did you see their promise?

    Or do you just like to focus on the negative?
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  11. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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  12. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    Search my posts I have praised Mayo and Merrriweather. I love Brandon.
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  13. PatriotNMP43

    PatriotNMP43 Rookie

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    I knew the D sucked too but I HATED BEING RIGHT.

    I REALLY WISH I WAS WRONG.
  14. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Same here. It's sad. If Seymour doesn't improve throughout the course of the year then we really need to see what kind of draft choices we can get for him. He's simply being paid too much money to not be at least effective in all phases of the game. He made four tackles last night but we should be seeing him in on the pass rush too.
  15. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    You guys maybe right but where were you when we won in SF and NY ? If we win next week after giving up 24 pts for e.g. will you show the same concern or just say "a W is a W and we will take it " ?

    Our defense has problems, we had them in the duane starks era too and alternated wins and losses.got blown out at home with brady throwing water bottles.Saw mike bell run through our defense.We ended up in the AFCDiv game. Yes past is past but then so is 2007. Lets wait and watch what happens.
  16. PatriotNMP43

    PatriotNMP43 Rookie

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    I thought the D looked great the 1st 2 weeks, in fact that Jets game should be the blueprint for how well they can play. We all know how fired up the Patriots get for the Jets, too bad they can't get fired up like that every week.

    I still hold out hope for improvement week to week from the defense, what can i say, i am a hopeless optimist.
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  17. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    NY I will give you.....but who cares about the niners? They suck, and we should have pounded them. The D cannot defend a top flight offensive attack. The writing has been on the wall for years. Wilfork, Warren, Merriweather, Mayo, Gutton, Hobbs, Wright and Greene are the type of guys we need out there. Seymour, Bru, Vrabel and Harrison need to be cut or take paycuts. Yes, they are legends, but they are simply to old and slow to play at a high level anymore.

    I gave bru some credit for being much faster this year, but he needs to be replaced asap, he is not the answer anymore.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  18. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

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    That whole secondary is a liability right now. O'Neal and Hobbs were getting toasted all night.
  19. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    True, but Hobbs is a good player... O'neal is a jag at best, and we all knew that before. Bru, Sey, Vrabel, Thomas and Harrison are past their prime. Thomas is worth keeping, vrabel should stay if he takes a paycut, but Sey and Harrison need to be axed.
  20. scout

    scout Rookie

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    Hold on their brother, before you pigeon hole Mav you need to check out his Red Sox posts.
  21. maryjane

    maryjane Banned

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    I said much the same thing this morning and they AXED my thread!

    Seymour and Vrabel s/b cut next year. SAnders too. Bruschi and Harrison should/will retire.

    It should be a rebuilding year, but the homers around here don't want to hear it.
  22. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    i dont mean to say the D is good. they looked against KC and NY. We just forget it when we win ,thats all. Even against the jets we gave up more than 4YPC
  23. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    O'Neal ran fast to save a TD, so did Watson once in a high profile play, that doesn't mean their level of play is at a consistently high level. How does your logic compute, do you really let one play affect your entire analysis?

    I guess I haven't been reading the same boards you have on Bruschi and Harrison. Through 5 games I haven't seen a level of play from either of them that is above mean.

    You take the average mean of play from the league, and Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, and O'Neal have been below average.

    I understand what you are saying in that some trolls or bandwagon fans can use this thread as justification for their sky-is-falling claims, but that is not my intent. We need to face the truth that old favorites can no longer play above-mean football at their position. It is as painful as seeing Troy Brown slowly fade, but it is happening to the D.

    This defense has suffered from 3 years of using draft picks to give McDaniels toys to mask his play calling flaws. A situational run-stuffing ILB, a situational pass-rushing OLB, and development of Wheatley/Wilhite are essential if this team wants to play deep in the playoffs.
  24. QuinielaBox

    QuinielaBox Rookie

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    There appear to be weaknesses in certain areas of the defense that get exposed against good teams. Last night, all the CB's were hung out to dry against larger, faster San Diego WR. Due to poor matchups, and good San Diego offensive execution, the Patriots D was toast last night and needed Cassell to be Tom Brady to stay competitive.

    Unfortunately, I see several more situations where the Patriots will have trouble this year. Somebody is going to have to light a match under the players asses or the team is in trouble.
  25. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So where do I look up this average mean of play rankings...:rolleyes:

    That last paragraph is just nemism talk...We're not having trouble with the run except against wildcat offenses and BB could have added a situational run stuffing ILB if he needed to, he's surfing because we didn't need to. He drafted an ILB many say has the makings of an all pro in the first because we finally had a high pick and a target it could reach. He's drafted an OLB who is being developed and again if he needed a pure pass rusher he could have added one in FA. Jarvis can rush the passer, he went down early yesterday. He had a hybrid role planned for Tank Williams only he was lost in pre season. Bill doesn't feel that rushing corners is the way to develop them. Worked with Hobbs and Asante.

    O'Neal made a big time play in that JETS game and it wasn't based on running fast. And he had position on the TD just up against a taller and more determined WR than we're used to seeing... He gave up that first big reception but that receiver was in front of him which seems to be Bill's criteria - he doesn't get to call his own coverages.

    Bruschi and Harrison have been making plays all over the place in the three games we won. I don't check boards to tell me what I see... I'm not a Big Sey fan but he's here for now and he was playing better until last night when nobody played well and the scheme failed.
  26. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    I'm a little lost on the O'neil issue. I rewatched the game today, and he did a good job in coverage in the first half. That long bomb on the first play, was simply a great catch. He had position, and had his arm right in there. 90% of the time, that ball is dropped. I do not blame O'neil on that one. I thought leaving them alone while the safeties played the run was the problem. Hobbs, and O'neil did ok. Not great, but better than people are making it sound.
  27. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Did you miss the other huge plays he gave up? It wasn't just that one long bomb.

    It's not just him though, we have some problems putting pressure on the QB which makes the DB's look worse.
  28. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    I realize he gave up other plays, but he didnt cover as badly as some here make it sound. It's like with Cassel. Everyone says he sucks because of 10 bad plays. They fail to mention he was good on the other ten. Everyone tends to focus on the negative, because the team lost. There was plenty of bad plays during the Jets game, but they won, so nobody was *****ing then. Same with Miami. There was some positives in that game. (not many:D)

    The team right now is just not playing very consistant football. All we can hope for, is that they are learning from those mistakes, and will continue to improve.
  29. Steamer86

    Steamer86 Rookie

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  30. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dude - STFU. You aren't right. Seymour isn't lazy. DAMN you are an idiot. Seymour was HURT with a variety of injuries.

    Would you please do everyone a favor and just leave because you don't bring a damn thing to this board.
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