Welcome to PatsFans.com

Defensive back coverage -- too aggressive?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by GoWhalers, Dec 17, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    A constant theme as I've been watching replays during Pats games this season, I keep asking myself "what on earth are the safeties expected to be doing?".

    There have been some good post-game breakdowns on these forums showing in some plays poor decisions by the safeties, along with a continously rotating player cast (Chung, Gregory, Wilson, McCourty), but the safety strategy seems to me fundamentally changed this season.

    I see the corners pressed to fight and win a lot of 1:1 battles, and that has been with a fairly depleted cast until the addition of Talib. A lot of Cover 1 and Cover 0 schemes. A lot of plays with two free runners down a given half of the field (one maybe beating the CB, the other handed off from the linebacker into zone coverage).


    Some questions -- any thoughts are welcome!

    Are the linebackers being released for pass pressure so often?

    If they are, have the LBs been effective in rushing the QB?

    Are the safeties overwhelmed by CBs losing their individual battles?

    If yes, does a Cover 2 defense make more sense? Should the Patriot front 7 be able to hold up without the extra pass rush?
     
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    27,488
    Likes Received:
    643
    Ratings:
    +1,884 / 31 / -48

    No Jersey Selected

    They actually played some of their best defense of the game when they finally got aggressive in the second half. They were piss poor in the first half when they were sitting back in the zone and letting Kaepernick pick them apart. The safeties, unfortunately, continue to be an issue on the defensive side of the ball (though not as big of an issue as they were earlier in the year), though.
     
  3. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,196
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +75 / 0 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Having a tall safety back there sure would help.

    Is Gregory sticking next year?

    Is Arrington good enough to make roster next year? His non tackle on Crabtree cost Pats the game.Keep him as ST and emergency CB

    Overall I'm happy with the Pats team as it stands but just a few additions to upgrade positions/depth could make them really really good. Staying healthy would help also :eek:
     
  4. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I'm not so sure about that -- the Patriots used to play a bend-but-don't-break scheme. Give up the yards, but keep the ball in front of you. Tighten up in the red zone where they run out of space. Hold them to 3 instead of 7. Get ahead on the scoreboard and then start to loosen up.

    This season the defense has been much more vulnerable to a big play or breakdown in coverage. Also, I feel like the Pats have the talent on the front 7 to be more flexible, not less -- although I cringe watching Hightower in coverage! -- so I don't see why they need to be as aggressive in the secondary?
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,876
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Well the big breakdown was Arrington on the TD by Crabtree, he took a bad angle but was playing a soft coverage, he was 10 yds off the line at the snap, due to Dennard's injury he was playing outside rather than in the slot where he is MUCH more effective.
     
  6. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    59
    Ratings:
    +180 / 4 / -2

    #75 Jersey

    Soft coverage is an easy way of putting it. I would much rather give up TDs in agressive coverage than having CBs 10 yards off the ball. The starters even with some of the hiccups last night are far superior to the combo of McCourty Arrington at corner and Gregory Chung at safety. It's not even close. In the grand scheme they gave up 41 but offense and sts did them no favors last night.
     
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    27,488
    Likes Received:
    643
    Ratings:
    +1,884 / 31 / -48

    No Jersey Selected

    They've been much less vulnerable to the big play since Talib came aboard and McCourty moved to safety. The reason the big play was there early on was due to two things..

    1. Blown assignments in the secondary.

    2. Patriots defense completely disrespecting the 49ers' ability to go deep.

    I do agree with you about the coverage abilities of the linebackers, though.
     
  8. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    11,083
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +93 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    There was also the TD to Moss where 2 guys had gotten behind our defense and the other long TD where the TE was open by a mile. Vernon Davis also got well behind our defense for what should've been an easy TD but Kap missed him. 4 fatal breakdowns in the secondary, they took a big step back that game.
     
  9. iapatsfan

    iapatsfan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +218 / 79 / -29

    Awareness seems to be the biggest problem with our corners. Arrington seems to have none whatsoever. On the play where he missed the tackle on Crabtree for the TD he should have been in his face from the snap. The Pats ran a blitz that forced Kaepernick to get rid of the ball ASAP. What is Arrington doing 10 yards off the ball in that situation? It is basically a free bail out for Kaepernick. In that situation you either get in the face of the WR at the snap to take away that option, or you play slightly off and try to jump the hot read. I have no idea why an NFL corner plays 10 yds off the ball against a WR that runs a 4.6 on a good day, especially on an all out blitz. That play is indicative of our DB awareness.
     
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    27,488
    Likes Received:
    643
    Ratings:
    +1,884 / 31 / -48

    No Jersey Selected

    The Patriots were in Cover 0. That means no safety help for Arrington against the team's #1 receiver. That's why he was lined up 10 yards off the LOS.
     
  11. iapatsfan

    iapatsfan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +218 / 79 / -29

    I get that, but he knew Kaepernick was going to have to get rid of the ball immediately. What is the point of blitzing if you are 10yds off the WR? You give him a free bail out. There isn't a CB in the NFL that should need help over the top vs Crabtree.
     
  12. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,542
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +574 / 13 / -5

    #51 Jersey

    The problem with that coverage was Arrington fluffed the tackle. If he does what any competent corner does and tackles Crabtree, there's no issue and it's a short completion against man. The fault of that coverage was Arrington's execution.

    It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  13. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    17,268
    Likes Received:
    264
    Ratings:
    +874 / 12 / -2

    #12 Jersey

    When Arrington plays outside, bad things happen. Every single time. As soon as Dennard went down, I started cursing up a storm, and predicted loudly and drunkly that Arrington was going to get beaten horribly outside the hashes, and probably singlehandedly give up a touchdown, before the game was over.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  14. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    17,268
    Likes Received:
    264
    Ratings:
    +874 / 12 / -2

    #12 Jersey

    The problem is that Arrington is a bad cornerback, and everyone on both sides of the ball and both coaching staffs knows it. A playcall in which you have nobody left to clean up the mess in the incredibly likely event that he ***** up is a bad playcall.
     
  15. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,542
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +574 / 13 / -5

    #51 Jersey

    You can't blame Arrington for a dirty low play on Dennard that forced him from the game. If Dennard is in, it's more than likely that play doesn't happen.

    Arrington is best left for the slot. Either way, there's a serious need for a #3 CB with speed. Arrington's speed limits his effectiveness.
     
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    27,488
    Likes Received:
    643
    Ratings:
    +1,884 / 31 / -48

    No Jersey Selected

    In short, he was lined up that far off due to the play that was coming. It gave him either free reign to make a play on the ball if he could or have plenty of time to come up and make a tackle off the short pass. Problem with this play is, one, a blitz like that shouldn't have been called and, two, Arrington completely whiffed on the tackle.
     
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    27,488
    Likes Received:
    643
    Ratings:
    +1,884 / 31 / -48

    No Jersey Selected

    That's the thing. Arrington is best suited as a nickelback. He was lined up on the outside against Crabtree on that play. Knowing what we know about Arrington and his ability to cover #1 wideouts, a Cover 0 was probably not the best coverage scheme to call. Cover 1 with one deep safety to help Arrington (since Talib can stick with the flanker one on one) would have been the best scheme to implement at that point of time. If Arrington ***** up, which is always a real possibility, there's a safety over the top to clean up the mess.
     
  18. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,542
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +574 / 13 / -5

    #51 Jersey

    I agree Kontra and a flag football child makes that tackle. That said, I'm sure Arrington was gassed at the end (much like most on ST/D). The Pats would have expended a ridiculous amount of energy to catch the 49ers in those elements.

    It's easy to be critical of these guys from the comfort and warmth of our own homes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  19. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,269
    Likes Received:
    78
    Ratings:
    +231 / 3 / -1

    You miss Steve Gregory squating at 15 yards on Vernon Davis because he "thought" the blitz would force the QB to throw a pass by then, only to have Davis run a seam right by him and have an unmolested Kaepernick come within inches of completing a haymaker?

    Hell, Gregory should have been playing even closer! What's the point of blitzing if you are 15 yards off the TE?

    What was dirty about a perfectly good cut block? The 49ers also got Bolden with a beauty on the fake punt, he looked like he was climbing out of a four foot hole.
     
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    17,268
    Likes Received:
    264
    Ratings:
    +874 / 12 / -2

    #12 Jersey

    I'm not blaming Arrington for not being good enough to cover Crabtree. As you said, he's a very limited player, and it's the coaching staff's job to know that and account for it. I'm blaming the play call that didn't provide over the top help, because Arrington failing to make that play should have been anticipated.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>