Defenses flopping, faking an injury to slow down offense (merged 8x)

[patsfan-1982]

Re: NFL issues Warnig of penalties to teams faking injury.

if you cover a receiver to close you get called for PI if you hit them to hard you get fined if you do anything more then breathe on a QB you get called for roughing the passer, now if a team goes no huddle you cant even sub players...what do you want defenses to do when there are 18 QB's on pace to throw for over 4000 yerds

 

[juny]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

OJ and PFT were right. You CANNOT ask an official to make a medical judgement on a player down on the field. There are only 2 ways to stop this. One is to do it after the fact with video (as PFT suggests) The other is through the change of substitution rules as several people here have opined.

I think the best procedural idea was that the "injured player" would have to stay out the remainder of the drive as a minimum. As to penalties for "flopping" after the fact. Stiff fines for BOTH the player and team. Repeat offenders will lose money AND draft picks

BTW- back in the day I worked out at the Quincy Gym that McGinest used in the off season. (he lived at the Quincy Marina with other Pats like Law and Milloy) We got to talking one day and I asked him about the "flop". He told me that he actually did hyperextend his leg on that play, but he then had to admit that he stayed down longer than he really had to because he knew the D was gassed. I think he missed 2 plays before he game back.

So was McGinest really hurt on that play? I'm guessing he was borderline so when in doubt, he decided to stay down. I don't remember him popping back up like the Giants did on MNF. I would argue his case is way different than the Giants who just flopped.

 

[PrairiePat]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Thus the league should adopt a rule that prohibits a team from snapping the ball until 10 seconds has elapsed off of the 30 second clock.

You do realize this would have cost the Pats 3 points just before the half last week? I don't like this idea particularly.

The best solution I've seen here was the one that would force the 'injured' defender out of the game until the next change of possession or timeout. If he's truly injured, this is a non-penalty anyhow. It would only really penalize the faker, or a player with a superficial injury he could quickly come back from. It's a lot like the soccer rule where the injured player has to stay off until the next play stoppage. In football, that would equate to a change in possession or timeout.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Then what the hell was the point of sending a letter to all 32 teams warning them that they could be fined and lose draft picks, if all that has to be done is deny it?

I don't know just repeating what I heard. However, Goodell likes making rules and punishments up on the fly. Putting more arbitrary power in the hands of that fool is not the answer. I don't think many people put a lot of faith in his judgment. It needs to be out for the possession or maybe a single substitution, cut and dry.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/20/league-could-fine-for-faking-injuries-if-it-could-be-proven/
I contacted league spokesman Greg Aiello if a fine for faking injury was possible. The answer is yes “if it could be proven.”

“It’s not a judgment call (‘We think or decided they were faking.’) You would need clear evidence, meaning an admission,” he wrote.

 

[Froob]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Although it is cheap, offense does have a lot of advantages over defense with pass interference and illegal contact and such. I don't think it's that big of an issue. Maybe just make a guy sit for 3 plays.

 

[larryo]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

How about starting with replacing the injured player with someone that plays the same position? DB goes down, a DB must come in. Just a thought but then I guess the guys that need to be replaced would be doing the faking. This wouild in the least limit the substitutions.

 

[Kjmass1]

No huddle offense...defensive flopping

So if I have no injuries, I can flop 3 times per game? I'll take that chance.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

How about starting with replacing the injured player with someone that plays the same position? DB goes down, a DB must come in. Just a thought but then I guess the guys that need to be replaced would be doing the faking. This wouild in the least limit the substitutions.

I can see some issues with that. For example what if a team was trying to get a big run-stopping DL off the field and replace him with a pass-rushing DL specialist? How do determine who is a DE or an OLB on teams that switch between a 3-4 and 4-3? In the example above, what if you wanted to replace a safety (a DB) with a corner (also a DB)?

To me best solution is to make that player sit for a specific number of plays. The rule could even be worded to say that it is a player safety issue, to give the team's medical staff enough time to check him out. Best of all this eliminates any judgement as to whether or not a player really was hurt.

The only question then would be how long that player has to be sidelined. I would say it has to be for more than three plays: if you're trying to make a change between 2nd and 3rd down, then that player should not be available for the following 1st or 2nd down. Likewise, if you're making a change between a 3rd down play and a 1st down, that player should not be available for the subsequent 3rd down. So the bare minimum that player should have to sit is for three plays - but it would be a whole lot easier on the officials if they simply had to sit for the rest of the series.

 

[larryo]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

I can see some issues with that. For example what if a team was trying to get a big run-stopping DL off the field and replace him with a pass-rushing DL specialist? How do determine who is a DE or an OLB on teams that switch between a 3-4 and 4-3? In the example above, what if you wanted to replace a safety (a DB) with a corner (also a DB)?

Can teams switch all defensive personnel when the player goes down or is it just the injured player?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Can teams switch all defensive personnel when the player goes down or is it just the injured player?

Yes.
10char

 

[larryo]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

So they can change the whole defense for losing that one guy for a play.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

So they can change the whole defense for losing that one guy for a play.

Yes, that is correct.

Which brings up another point: exceptions to some of the previous suggestions if an injury should happen after 3rd down, prior to 4th down?

 

[TrueBeliever]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

The Daily Shoutout: More on fake injuries - CBSSports.com

A former Giants player, who asked not to be identified, said Giants players faked injuries when Spagnuolo was defensive coordinator for the team from 2007 to 2009.

That's it! I'm starting a petition to have the Giants' 2007 Super Bowl championship revoked and retroactively awarded to the Patriots. What a bunch of dirty cheaters!!!

 

[JaxPats]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

I hearby declare that......FLOP GATE !! :rocker: I,m glad that happened early in the season though. That is probaly the only way to slow Brady down in a no huddle. Now the league AZZHATS are on notice to watch and scrutinize these situations more closely. IMO, you fake, your out for the rest of the game. I think any coach knowing this could happen will definatley instruct his "better" players this is a no-no. Much too risky.

 

[jbb9s]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

I like what the NBA does. If a particularly bad free throw shooter happens to get "injured" while being fouled, the opposing coach get to pick the guy who he wants to take the free throws.

doesnt translate to the NFL

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

I'm going to open an acting school that teaches professional athletes how to make better flops. It will even require that athletes extend their "fake" injuries a few more plays after the game if not for a day or so.

So lots of consulting with the coaches and organization...should be fun.

 

[PatsFan24]

NFL to punish teams who fake injuries

Detroit Lions - NFL | NFL warns of faking injuries | The Detroit News

wonder how this will effect the games this week

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: NFL to punish teams who fake injuries

Detroit Lions - NFL | NFL warns of faking injuries | The Detroit News

wonder how this will effect the games this week

More rules to be arbitrarily decided by the idiot overlord Goodell, great.

From The Detroit News: Detroit Lions - NFL | NFL warns of faking injuries | The Detroit News

"In the memo, NFL officials reminded teams of league policy that calls on coaches to discourage the practice. There is no specific rule on the topic.

Nonetheless, two days after there was speculation Giants safety Deon Grant faked an injury against the Rams during Monday's game, the NFL is warning of disciplinary action."

 

[weswelker#83]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Some of you wont like this dark humor.... I found it funny.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: No huddle offense...defensive flopping

Some of you wont like this dark humor.... I found it funny.

Already posted in the thread, at post #92