Defense

[Ring 6]

I thought criticism of the defense before today was unwarranted.

In 2001, when we made our run, we had a streak (9games I think) of allowing 17 or less points. We won them all, and at the time, I noticed that 17 was somewhat of a magic # for a D. Good teams dont lose many games when allowing 17 points or less.

Through 4 games we have been 17 or under in all 4. (Exactly 17 in the first 3)
Against Buffalo 7 of those were on a defensive TD, and against the Jets, one TD was just a fluke.

Today we held a very good offense to 13 points. The 2 drives early holding them to 3 were great defense, by the way.

BB teams historically finish stronger than they start, and historically, the defense gets better throughout the season.

Aside from the Cotchery play were he was tackled expect he landed on top of one of our guys, the great Coles run and catch, and the blown coverage vs Walker, the D has been truly tremendous. (it has allowed 36 points outside of those 3 plays). You also have to chalk up the other Walker TD as simply an outstanding play by the Broncos (call, throw and catch).

I am very impressed with the D so far, even by BB standards. I expect more of the same against the punchless Fins.

 

[Richter]

I'm surprised by the solid production of the D thus far, as I do expect them to be much better later in the season, since that is the trend for Belichick crafted defenses. Right now, they're stopping the run fairly effectively, and the secondary is starting to come together somewhat. This is definitely a defense, and team, that is designed to play with a lead, however. By week 8 or so, I expect the running game to be the staple of the team, the passing game to have come around fully and the defense to be in full-fledged attack mode. This team can win a lot of games if the offense can get an early lead, and let the defense attack and the running game grind out the clock.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

BB teams historically finish stronger than they start, and historically, the defense gets better throughout the season.

Precisely why I'm looking forward to the game against the Bears. It just seems that each year, this D's intent on sending a message whenever it plays against a team that has a top rated defense. In '03, they shut out Dallas to take over the top ranking in points allowed. In '04, they gave up one field goal against Baltimore. Even last year, they shut out the Bucs.

 

[Murphys95]

I thought criticism of the defense before today was unwarranted.

In 2001, when we made our run, we had a streak (9games I think) of allowing 17 or less points. We won them all, and at the time, I noticed that 17 was somewhat of a magic # for a D. Good teams dont lose many games when allowing 17 points or less.

Through 4 games we have been 17 or under in all 4. (Exactly 17 in the first 3)
Against Buffalo 7 of those were on a defensive TD, and against the Jets, one TD was just a fluke.

Today we held a very good offense to 13 points. The 2 drives early holding them to 3 were great defense, by the way.

BB teams historically finish stronger than they start, and historically, the defense gets better throughout the season.

Aside from the Cotchery play were he was tackled expect he landed on top of one of our guys, the great Coles run and catch, and the blown coverage vs Walker, the D has been truly tremendous. (it has allowed 36 points outside of those 3 plays). You also have to chalk up the other Walker TD as simply an outstanding play by the Broncos (call, throw and catch).

I am very impressed with the D so far, even by BB standards. I expect more of the same against the punchless Fins.

Good post. Obviously the defense is a work in progress, but today's performance was worth a hearty pat on the back, especially for holding Cincy to 2 for 11 on 3rd down conversions. That was a marked improvement over the previous three games.

Holding the opposition to 17 is a good feat as well.

 

[patsox23]

Precisely why I'm looking forward to the game against the Bears. It just seems that each year, this D's intent on sending a message whenever it plays against a team that has a top rated defense. In '03, they shut out Dallas to take over the top ranking in points allowed. In '04, they gave up one field goal against Baltimore. Even last year, they shut out the Bucs.

Good point, Wotan.

 

[DarrylS]

Great thread, after listening to the incessant bore Madden & Michaels last Sunday nite, Simms made a lot of sense when he spoke of how great coaching is usually the equalizer. Yesterday was a classic example of a great game plan against a very good offensive team, I thought they would put a lot of pressure on Palmer and have him rush throws, sacks etc. Instead they spent the early part of the game flooding the lanes and keeping them infront of them. Late in the game, they put a lot of pressure on Palmer with good results. I agree that this defense is a work in progress, and having the depth of Hawkins, Poteat and Scott is the equalizer.. gotta remember how this team is built 53 deep, not 22 and a lot of what goes on here makes sense. Dean Pees came into his own yesterday and this may be a harbinger of things to come.

 

[Joker]

The secret to this game was Colvin penetrating early

then Jarvis Green came in and BLEW the Bengals up

yeah, they stoppede Colvin but they NEVER gamep
lanneded for Jarvis

3 sacks brothers..from where?? Not on the game films

Cincy had no answer

they HAD the MO when the Ghost missed that kick..but Jarvis hurt them BAD when they had the mo

and Maroney blew them up...rejoice Pats fans...it is IMPOSSIBLE to play Dillon running hard and then try to compensate for the 225 pound future superstar

and Tom Brady MURDERED the Bengals...even thrwe a key block on on eof Maroney's big runs

 

[Gumby]

The team defense has been good and point-wise I would agree; if it weren't for 3 fluke plays the points would be very low.

BUT................2 points.


1. For all the anticipation I had with this DL; I just don't see them creating a lot of pressure situations for the other QBs.
Certainly not early on in the games. I think yesterday we got all the sacks when Cincy was trying to play catchup after the run game finally got going. not to mention two of the "sacks" were actually just fumbles by Palmer. with yesterday's four sacks they have 11 in 4 games.
So I have a perception of disappointment that the DL is underperfoming. Not sure if that is valid based on performance or the BB scheme just has them covering gaps and not getting pressure as much.

2. I am also still not thrilled with the Run Defense. It seems like against any of the better teams we give up 6-8 yards a pop on 1st down (again especially early on in the game). Checking stat wise in the 4 games (4.3, 2.1, 4.2 and 4.2 yards per carry) Except for Game 2 versus the Jesters we have been giving up over 4 yards a carry.

Is this all on the linebackers or does it also come back to the DL?
Is it not getting the scheme; cause then it would mean we have room for improvement as season goes on?

So while I agree with your premise that they aren't as bad as folks were making them out; they also arent all that good yet either. I would expect a lot more and we will have to wait and see if they get there like in the SB years.
Yesterday could still be a bit of an aberration that we actually blew someone out for once. Dont get too high the same as all those 'we're doomed' crowd over-reacted to the Denver game.

 

[Brownfan80]

I thought criticism of the defense before today was unwarranted.

In 2001, when we made our run, we had a streak (9games I think) of allowing 17 or less points. We won them all, and at the time, I noticed that 17 was somewhat of a magic # for a D. Good teams dont lose many games when allowing 17 points or less.

Through 4 games we have been 17 or under in all 4. (Exactly 17 in the first 3)
Against Buffalo 7 of those were on a defensive TD, and against the Jets, one TD was just a fluke.

Today we held a very good offense to 13 points. The 2 drives early holding them to 3 were great defense, by the way.

BB teams historically finish stronger than they start, and historically, the defense gets better throughout the season.

Aside from the Cotchery play were he was tackled expect he landed on top of one of our guys, the great Coles run and catch, and the blown coverage vs Walker, the D has been truly tremendous. (it has allowed 36 points outside of those 3 plays). You also have to chalk up the other Walker TD as simply an outstanding play by the Broncos (call, throw and catch).

I am very impressed with the D so far, even by BB standards. I expect more of the same against the punchless Fins.

Nice post, Andy. I think posts like this will give the posters who miss the yesteryear of intelligent informed Patsfans.com threads exactly what they're looking for.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Today we held a very good offense to 13 points. The 2 drives early holding them to 3 were great defense, by the way.

Also wanted to add that following Cincy's second field goal to open the game, Brady threw the pick. The defense came up huge, bailed him out and gave him the ball back by stuffing the Bengals with a 3 and out. Brady responded in kind by marching the team downfield highlighted by a big completion to Watson, followed by Maroney's TD run to take the lead and never look.

And thanks Pawsox.

 

[D-cleater]

The team defense has been good and point-wise I would agree; if it weren't for 3 fluke plays the points would be very low.

BUT................2 points.


1. For all the anticipation I had with this DL; I just don't see them creating a lot of pressure situations for the other QBs.
Certainly not early on in the games. I think yesterday we got all the sacks when Cincy was trying to play catchup after the run game finally got going. not to mention two of the "sacks" were actually just fumbles by Palmer. with yesterday's four sacks they have 11 in 4 games.
So I have a perception of disappointment that the DL is underperfoming. Not sure if that is valid based on performance or the BB scheme just has them covering gaps and not getting pressure as much.

2. I am also still not thrilled with the Run Defense. It seems like against any of the better teams we give up 6-8 yards a pop on 1st down (again especially early on in the game). Checking stat wise in the 4 games (4.3, 2.1, 4.2 and 4.2 yards per carry) Except for Game 2 versus the Jesters we have been giving up over 4 yards a carry.

Is this all on the linebackers or does it also come back to the DL?
Is it not getting the scheme; cause then it would mean we have room for improvement as season goes on?

So while I agree with your premise that they aren't as bad as folks were making them out; they also arent all that good yet either. I would expect a lot more and we will have to wait and see if they get there like in the SB years.
Yesterday could still be a bit of an aberration that we actually blew someone out for once. Dont get too high the same as all those 'we're doomed' crowd over-reacted to the Denver game.

Wow, you're a harsh critic my friend - you don't validate our sacks because they came in the second half when Cincy was playing catch up? And the two sacks for fumbles were'nt just that - they had nothing to do with the defensive line pressure but rather gift fumbles by Palmer.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your football knowledge, but it sounds like you don't really understand much about defense, especially this defense. Many great defenses start the game fairly conservative until they get a good sense of what the opposing offense is trying to do. Once they've made the offense one-dimentional, they become more aggressive in countering that attack. I think your perception that it is more scheme related is closer to the truth.

What you also must realize is that this defense is superb at covering up weaknesses. You are going to see a few 5-10 yard runs here and there until our secondary is healthy and clicking, which they may not quite yet be. Weigh these against long completions or runs and its a small price to pay. Once the field gets smaller, I am very confident in our red zone defense this year, simply by the subtraction of Beisel and Starks.

You also might see many short completions as our CB's start the game giving opposing receivers HUGE cushion like they did against Cincy. Again, I think its designed to prevent big plays. Against we Miami we may see much more press coverage and blitzes in the beginning of the game, like you are calling for. Culpepper is no Palmer.

 

[PatsFan37]

I didn't keep track, but it seemed to me that thy blitzed less yesterday than in previous games. Up until yesterday, it always seemed that opponents converted 3rd and long more often during a blitz than at other times, but again, that's just a feeling -- perhaps because I was looking for it.

Naturally it makes sense to blitz less when coverage is suspect -- instead of trusting in a few talented defenders (Hobbs) to handle receivers one-on-one, flood the receivers with multiple defenders and rush 3 or 4.

Can anyone else comment on whether they blitzed less? I also thought they were getting pretty decent pressure with a 3- or 4-man rush.

 

[amazinPats]

Rudi Johnson was getting good yardage on his runs in the first half. I thought it was because the Pats had opened up with an extra defensive back as they knew Cincy would test the secondary.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Read Bob George's article and it had the interesting tidbit about the Pat's 5-2-4 defense. 5db's 2 lb's and 4 interior linemen. As soon as we moved to this front, Rudi&Chad Johnson were just a couple of foot notes in this game.

I can't help but wonder if other team's will copycat this defense and dismantle the Bengal's hopes of greatness? They would have to be good team's like ours because I can't think of too many team's that have the coaching, not to mention 5 defensive backs capable of duplicating our effort just laying around.

Naa! on second thought I don't think but maybe 3 or 4 teams in the NFL have the personal to do so.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. 17 has always been the magic number. Our front seven is one of the best in the league. The addition of Seau has made the difference, as well the maturing of Wright. Finally Banta-Cain is having a fine year. What will come in time is turnovers.

The question is with the secondary, as it has been since Law and OTIS left. We needed to count on Hawkins and Poteat, and they came through! Harrison is far from his old self. Samuel is just OK. Chad Scott is a wily veteran. That's not exactly a group you'd expect great things from. But they are indeed producing. I think that they will get better. The schedule is soft and they will feed off a improving, great front seven. I like Hawkins and Scott a lot.

If we get production from this group of five plus Hobbs and Wilson and maybe something from Sanders (so Troy doesn't need to play bb), then we will have one of the top five defenses in the league.

The BOTTOM LINE is that the defense should be able to hold its own. IMHO, the defense is as good or better than defense we ended with last year.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I thought criticism of the defense before today was unwarranted.

In 2001, when we made our run, we had a streak (9games I think) of allowing 17 or less points. We won them all, and at the time, I noticed that 17 was somewhat of a magic # for a D. Good teams dont lose many games when allowing 17 points or less.

Through 4 games we have been 17 or under in all 4. (Exactly 17 in the first 3)
Against Buffalo 7 of those were on a defensive TD, and against the Jets, one TD was just a fluke.

Today we held a very good offense to 13 points. The 2 drives early holding them to 3 were great defense, by the way.

BB teams historically finish stronger than they start, and historically, the defense gets better throughout the season.

Aside from the Cotchery play were he was tackled expect he landed on top of one of our guys, the great Coles run and catch, and the blown coverage vs Walker, the D has been truly tremendous. (it has allowed 36 points outside of those 3 plays). You also have to chalk up the other Walker TD as simply an outstanding play by the Broncos (call, throw and catch).

I am very impressed with the D so far, even by BB standards. I expect more of the same against the punchless Fins.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't remember who said it and the leadup, or whether it was an ad -- it went something like,

"The 85 Bears dominated you... the 2000 Ravens suffocated you... the Patriots just beat you..."

It's always been like that. One more wish-they-were-the-greatest-but-great-when-it-counts-is-okay part for the Pats' Super Bowl runs. I can look at the Ravens (again,) the Bears (again,) a couple of other teams and say "that is scary." I look at the Pats and say "yeah they're getting there."

A lot of great parts on this team, but the true greatness of a Pats team is always synergistic to an extent, i.e., the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Good post Andy -- wish we were in the elite here, but I'll take that eliteness of 4 Lombardis any day.

PFnV

 

[njpatsfan]

Read Bob George's article and it had the interesting tidbit about the Pat's 5-2-4 defense. 5db's 2 lb's and 4 interior linemen.

Hmm .... isn't that called --- THE NICKEL ? I know we're not used to seeing 4 downlinemen, but jeesh.

R