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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Sep 2, 2008.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am going to be the first one to say this, and anyone who would like to can bookmark this and remind me of it whenever you want.
    THE DEFENSE WILL BE BETTER THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.
    I also expect that we will break the team record for fewest points allowed, which we have hovered close to breaking in many of BBs years.

    We have gotten faster, and younger. We have added Mayo, Wheatley, Sanders, ONeal, Wilhite, Crable.
    What have we subracted?
    Seau. In his prime thats a loss, at this stage of his career, it is not.
    Samuel. OK, we lost a starter.
    Colvin. Not really a loss since we didn't have him at the end, and were better with Thomas outside.
    Gay. I do not believe that a player could make our roster who would perform worse than Randal Gay did in the SB.

    I see improvement, I see more speed, I see a healthy Seymour, a better group of LBs including depth, I see Meriwhether upgrading speed and play at safety with a much larger role, and I see 2 strong rookies, PLUS 2 experienced vets to fill the role of Asante Samuel in playing TEAM DEFENSE.
    If we think losing just one player can have the impact on this defense that it may have on another, then we have totally missed the point that BB builds an entire system around playing team defense, with less impact, good or bad, possible from any one player.
     
  2. Horace's Ivories

    Horace's Ivories PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Completely agree. looking forward to it...
     
  3. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I do NOT disagree at all...and also wish to add that if vets are needed to be brought in like Seau, it will be done. Also, these rookies will only get better as the year goes on, so I expect the team to really strengthen, bot weaken as the November rolls into December and beyond. Also overlooked is how strong this practice squad is; many developing players there. Great summation and prediction...
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  4. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    I think by the playoffs this will be a better defense. I think we will go through some growing pains but it will be worth it long term. I hope vets like Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison are not seeing 90+% of the defensive snaps. Get the young players reps early and often so they are all better come January and the vets are rested.
     
  5. hyperpat

    hyperpat Practice Squad Player

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    #24 Jersey

    Think the OP makes many good points. The only thing that might be a problem is the dreaded "rookie wall."
     
  6. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    #50 Jersey

    Good points, this defense is definitely younger and faster, and now we will start to see if they play smarter.....
     
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But how many rookies are we really relying on?
    Mayo. I seriuously doubt a 'rookie wall' is a factor there.
    Wheatley? Who knows how big a role he will play and when it will get that big?
    Wilhite? Crabel? Guyton? I dont think any of those guys will play enough to hit a wall.
     
  8. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'll go on record against this. What BBs defense predicates itself on is the "bend but dont break" style with playmakers making big plays(TURNOVERS!). Samuel is gone, and while we have replaced his body and we do have better team speed individual plays made by rookies will add up. We have fewer playmakers on D. Alot of our D last year was predicated by the offense getting a lead and making the opponent one dimensional. Closer games will lend a more balanced opponent and I think more yards and points. And seeing that the most important drive the D will face(again) is THE LAST ONE....getting the right balance on the field that leaves gas in the tank for that drive is what counts, not any type of totally dominant D. I dont think the 04 team will be topped anytime soon.
     
  9. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    Most of the OL sucked royally in the SB too did that mean we were going to cut Light,Mankins and Koppen who were destroyed by Umenyiora,Strahan,Tuck and the rest of the front 7? - If you don't go by what ONE game meant then how can you single out Gay in that one game?

    I know why,Because he is no longer a Patriot so we can now talk sh!t about him stinking up in that game,right? :rolleyes:
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your first point contradicts itself. There is no such thing as 'bend but don't break' predicated by BIG PLAYS. Bend but dont break is defined by limiting big plays, and thereby reducing your own big plays.
    Actually the fact that we had large leads last year, historically would HURT the defensive numbers not help them. Defenses get more conservative with big leads and allow more yards and points.
    And, why is it assumed we wont be playing with big leads anyway?
     
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you are going to accuse me of something, you should have your facts straight. I have been completely consistent about Gay, from DURING the SB until now, and even BEFORE the SB. I would be saying the exact same thing whether he was still here or not.
    Pretending about my motive does not make your argument stronger.
    Randall Gay was the worst player on the field in the SB. I said it then, and have ever since. He was bad on virtually EVERY play. The Giants created a gameplan to exploit his lack of quickness and agility. They consistently had receivers run one direction, stop and run the other direction when Gay covered them, and Manning looked directly at them the entire play at least a dozen different times. He was INCAPABLE of covering anyone they put out there.
    The OL had BAD PLAYS. They missed blocks. They were not INCAPABLE.

    Also, the OL was basically the best in the NFL all year long. Gay was a weak link all year long, big difference.
     
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree 100%. One thing I'd forgotten - and was reminded of while watching a Brady sports century piece on ESPN the other day - was how much the Patriots team, and specifically the defense, improved as the season went on in its Super Bowl seasons. In its 3 SB runs, the team has had consistent improvement and reached its peak in January and February.

    I expect the same to be the case this year. I'll also go out on a limb and offer myself up for the possibility of eating some crow and say that this defense will become (by the time playoffs rolls around) as dominant as the Pats D's were in the 3 SB championship years.
     
  13. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    My first point was about turnovers, I think we have less than last year(thats what I meant by big plays meaning OUR big plays on D). I think the teams' matchups this year will favor the running game slightly more than last year. And not having the depth at WR in particular leaves us very vulnerable to injury if Welker or Moss go down. I think its that "cross-rift" between the 2 that defenses havent been able to stop. Take away 1 and it seriously limits the other.
    The overall diminshing number of plays made on D will leave the opponents on the field longer. One thing all opponents will be trying to do is LIMIT POSESSIONS this year. In every game we struggled with last year it was due to long drives, fewer posessions leads to fewer big leads.
     
  14. Garbanza

    Garbanza In the Starting Line-Up

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    AndyJohnson - I hope you are right!

    I have to say this though - I've been reading your stuff for years now. I appreciate the enthusiasm and optimism, but when I read a prediction of yours - I want to hang my head. You scare me. Do me a favor though, post : Garbanza will never be a millionaire. Thanks! ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, so you think that we can't get turnovers any more because Asante Samuel isnt here? How many turnovers do you expect will evaporate because of 1 player not being here?
    Even if you think it is 4 plays that Samule made that no one else ever could, that is ONE TIME A MONTH that we are on the field longer. How can that have much of an impact on anything?

    I think that just about every team we played last year tried to 'limit possessions'. Just pointing to the fact that a few times teams were successful and games were closer, doesn't mean teams will be any more successful.

    Its like saying if we commit 3+ turnovers, we are more likely to lose, and using that as a reason we will lose more, by citing examples of games where we had 3 + turnovers in the past.
     
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When the Patriots have won more games in the last 7 years than any team ever has, when they haqve won 3 SBs, made the playoffs all 7 years, and have the best record any team has ever had over a 7 year period, the fact that I have been optimistic means I have been right an awful lot.
    Its interesting, if you are confident, you are villifed when wrong, if you are the eternal pessimist no one remembers your wrong predicitons.
     
  17. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    2002 called. It says "WTF?" :) / :(

    The Pats are, however, the only team to finish above .500 each of the last seven years, and have played an entire season of playoff games in that span.
     
  18. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

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    Assuming that Merriweather's healthy, Seymour can get to the QB (and hit him prior to releasing the ball) a few times, that there's no meltdown at CB, and Mayo proves that he's ready to start in the NFL, I couldn't agree with you more.
     
  19. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    One thing that irks me is how the eternal pessimist, as a "fan" can always fall back on "I am glad I was wrong".


    I agree this defense will be extremely productive. As for the poster who was talking about bend don't break... Bend don't break is a very soft style of play where everything is kept in front of you, waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. Asante capitalized on many mistakes, but there aren't as many amazing plays he has made then some seem to believe. This also doesn't mean the Patriots will not CHANGE their defensive philosophy with more speed/talent in the defense. We have CB's who can excel in man coverage now, soft zones may disappear this year...
     
  20. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    thanx for your input and your optimism, Andy...as usual
     
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