Defense wins championships!

[RayClay]

Have a look at our 2004 payroll breakdown compared to our 2009 payroll breakdown.

Most of our money is committed to the offense now.

We arn't the team that won those superbowls.

I agree that we took a turn when they installed the "Colts" rules and we went for offense at the expense of the defense.

The main reason, however, is that we aren't a Peyton Manning type offense. If the Colts all of a sudden decided to become defensively oriented, they'd have some problems too.

Randy Moss was a gift, though I think we're not using him well. Can't help wondering if we acquired a couple more linebackers instead of the time spent on Maroney and Chad Jackson, and filled those spots with vets or mid round picks, where we'd be. Outside of Moss, we haven't really hit many home runs on offense and we've used some firsts on Graham and Watson too.

We still don't have linebackers that can play our base defense. Hoping to fix that this year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The OC wateva his name for the colts is a genius.They have guys like Cllie and Garcon now making plays and they are young players.

That's not his genius. It's their intangibles. Those kids worked their butts off to become precise route runners and master Manning's machinations that really only involve a fraction of the plays most teams employ. They strive instead to do what they do well. If they don't execute, that system sucks. Same deal within any system. If those kids were more naturally gifted they probably wouldn't have worked as hard at their craft. Football matters players. Like Welker and Edleman. We need more receivers like that.

What the Colts have done more consistently is draft well for their system. They had to because they can't afford FA and they run a top heavy system so their depth has to be home grown. Belichick has used his ability to acquire FA to allow him to persue value in the draft and field a deeper team that isn't nearly as top heavy. He's won 3 so far in this decade. Polian is hoping to have two when the dust settles.

If Tom Moore had any genius it was his ability to work with Manning. Once he's gone, and it may be after this season since he is 70, the new OC may not fare as well. Dungy's genius was of the same variety. He was the facilitator, and the teacher of fundamentals. He stayed out of Manning's way the first few seasons and only began to persuade him to adapt to what the team needed to win once he was prepared to provide it - a fundamentally sound defense and a balanced offense capable of playing complimentary TEAM football. The Colts don't win via scheme, they win by doing a good job reading defenses and selecting from a limited number of plays in their arsenal to beat coverage. They win by executing on defense. They can be beat or they'd have been undefeated the entire decade...

Championships are won and lost in the trenches. In this era there is the proviso that nothing works if you don't have an above average QB. The better he is the better your chances, but if he doesn't have multiple easily accessible weapons and the protection to get the ball out to them fairly consistently all bets are off. You still need at least above average defense to compete against teams that pose difficult matchups because they too have a great QB and a potentially prolific offense. The better your defense the better your chances, but you still have to have an above average scoring offense at the least.

It's a balancing act. There is no one right or wrong approach. The Colts stuck by Moore and Mudd for almost a decade before winning a ring. Through year after year of one and done even. It's really seldom about coordinators except for simplistic disappointed fanboys.

 

[patsfan-1982]

the colts are in the super bowl because they stayed true to what they do

the pats are not in the super bowl because they stayed true to what they do


the colts pay there own star players and are very good at addressing there needs in the draft. this keeps there team going good every year.


the pats don't pay there own players and replace them with JAG's and over the hill players. if not for brady puting he's foot down moss, would be gone as will. if your not going to sign any big name FA or pay your own. then you have to be able to get impact players in the draft and the pats have not realy done that. they like to trade down and get roster fillers.


this team needs talent brady, moss, and welker, alone can't get you to the SB

 

[Triumph]

That's not his genius. It's their intangibles. Those kids worked their butts off to become precise route runners and master Manning's machinations that really only involve a fraction of the plays most teams employ. They strive instead to do what they do well. If they don't execute, that system sucks. Same deal within any system. If those kids were more naturally gifted they probably wouldn't have worked as hard at their craft. Football matters players. Like Welker and Edleman. We need more receivers like that.

Yup, Indy has Garcon and Collie and Anthony Gonzalez is hurt.

Brady has limited talent at WR compared to Manning.

 

[mgteich]

Garcon and Collie seem great because the system is so simple and there is so much repetition. Manning spent whole days with Collie after he was drafted, and whole days with Garcon. He did this because there was a POSSIBILITY that one of these players might need to play a major role. Manning has had exactly ONE OC in his career. The Front Office knows how to bring in inexpensive players who can be molded to fit their system.

Folks have suggested that we have copied the colts and that we are the old colts. I don't think this is true at all. Our offense does not operate like the colts offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

This may be the worst thread we'll see started this week.



Well, one can certainly hope, anyway.

 

[mgteich]

So, our hope to move above and beyond the colts is to hope Tom Moore retires. After all, Dungy leaving wasn't enough.

That was indeed the hope going into this season when it seemed that Moore was gone. We were the Super Bowl favorite and some had the colts out of the playoffs.

I'm alos interested that you copnsider Edelman type receivers as the solution to our need at receiver.

That's not his genius. It's their intangibles. Those kids worked their butts off to become precise route runners and master Manning's machinations that really only involve a fraction of the plays most teams employ. They strive instead to do what they do well. If they don't execute, that system sucks. Same deal within any system. If those kids were more naturally gifted they probably wouldn't have worked as hard at their craft. Football matters players. Like Welker and Edleman. We need more receivers like that.

What the Colts have done more consistently is draft well for their system. They had to because they can't afford FA and they run a top heavy system so their depth has to be home grown. Belichick has used his ability to acquire FA to allow him to persue value in the draft and field a deeper team that isn't nearly as top heavy. He's won 3 so far in this decade. Polian is hoping to have two when the dust settles.

If Tom Moore had any genius it was his ability to work with Manning. Once he's gone, and it may be after this season since he is 70, the new OC may not fare as well. Dungy's genius was of the same variety. He was the facilitator, and the teacher of fundamentals. He stayed out of Manning's way the first few seasons and only began to persuade him to adapt to what the team needed to win once he was prepared to provide it - a fundamentally sound defense and a balanced offense capable of playing complimentary TEAM football. The Colts don't win via scheme, they win by doing a good job reading defenses and selecting from a limited number of plays in their arsenal to beat coverage. They win by executing on defense. They can be beat or they'd have been undefeated the entire decade...

Championships are won and lost in the trenches. In this era there is the proviso that nothing works if you don't have an above average QB. The better he is the better your chances, but if he doesn't have multiple easily accessible weapons and the protection to get the ball out to them fairly consistently all bets are off. You still need at least above average defense to compete against teams that pose difficult matchups because they too have a great QB and a potentially prolific offense. The better your defense the better your chances, but you still have to have an above average scoring offense at the least.

It's a balancing act. There is no one right or wrong approach. The Colts stuck by Moore and Mudd for almost a decade before winning a ring. Through year after year of one and done even. It's really seldom about coordinators except for simplistic disappointed fanboys.

 

[upstater1]

Have a look at our 2004 payroll breakdown compared to our 2009 payroll breakdown.

Most of our money is committed to the offense now.

We arn't the team that won those superbowls.

While the money commitment thing is true, I suggest revisiting those Super Bowls. Patriot fans always have a certain revisionist history about what actually occurred.

Frequently forgotten is that in the Super Bowl against Carolina, Tom Brady threw the ball more than 50 times, he set the Super Bowl record for completions, threw for over 350 yards to multiple receivers (Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten) who all had really good days.

Meanwhile the defense gave up 330 passing yards to Jack Delhomme. The defense gave up 29 points in 32 minutes.

One thing that's changed since then is that we have LESS TALENT on offense. The defense is less talented as well, but that doesn't mean we can turn into the Jets with their put-putter of an offense and an attacking aggressive D. We have Tom Brady and they don't. We need a pass rush and good LBs on D--and that's my priority too. But we sure as heck need 2 or 3 more WRs (I'm much less concerned with the offensive line than I am with receivers).

Also note, we won the Carolina Super Bowl with Antowain Smith.

 

[Triumph]

While the money commitment thing is true, I suggest revisiting those Super Bowls. Patriot fans always have a certain revisionist history about what actually occurred.

Frequently forgotten is that in the Super Bowl against Carolina, Tom Brady threw the ball more than 50 times, he set the Super Bowl record for completions, threw for over 350 yards to multiple receivers (Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten) who all had really good days.

Meanwhile the defense gave up 330 passing yards to Jack Delhomme. The defense gave up 29 points in 32 minutes.

One thing that's changed since then is that we have LESS TALENT on offense. The defense is less talented as well, but that doesn't mean we can turn into the Jets with their put-putter of an offense and an attacking aggressive D. We have Tom Brady and they don't. We need a pass rush and good LBs on D--and that's my priority too. But we sure as heck need 2 or 3 more WRs (I'm much less concerned with the offensive line than I am with receivers).

Also note, we won the Carolina Super Bowl with Antowain Smith.

More WRs who can catch the ball. I was really impressed with Garcons hands yesterday. Also, WR's who get open and the OL go hand in hand. I think the NE OL will be fine too.

I wouldnt even count on Welker next season. If he can make it back at all, it will be icing on the cake.

 

[mgteich]

A 1-year contract with a top wideout makes a lot of sense in an uncapped year, especially with the Welker sitaution.

In addition, we need to deal with our need for an additional wide receiver or two.

 

[Willie55]

winning all your games in the playoffs wins championships!

lol.........

 

[PatsChamp88]

This may be the worst thread we'll see started this week.



Well, one can certainly hope, anyway.

Yeah at first I thought someone bumped a really old thread but seriously another one