Defense Wins Championships

[ctpatsfan77]

Fans from other teams would claim we've had plenty of it over the years (Tuck rule anyone?).

The tuck rule was bad luck--the Raiders should have been called for unnecessary roughness, 15 yards and an automatic first down.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why do we care about other teams' luck, especially one in the NFC. Or even about our own luck for that matter. Fans from other teams would claim we've had plenty of it over the years (Tuck rule anyone?). I don't think the Pats are crying about their bad luck. We should be crying about our inability to stop the Jets on third and 15, and all the other horrible red zone and third down plays we gave up because of a "bend but don't break" philosophy, lack of pass rush, and poor secondary play.

The moment someone points to the tuck rule, I realize that they either don't know football or they are doing nothing but pimping an agenda without regards to the facts. Even Gannon has grudgingly admitted that it was the correct call based upon the rule.

 

[rhodeislandpatsfan]

You think Philly is glad they shelled out for a prime CB who can make picks in January...........wish we had a guy like that around here.

We did, last year, how did that work out for us. With a chance to clinch history he CHOKED

 

[mayoclinic]

The moment someone points to the tuck rule, I realize that they either don't know football or they are doing nothing but pimping an agenda without regards to the facts. Even Gannon has grudgingly admitted that it was the correct call based upon the rule.

Not saying whether or not it was luck - I don't really care ... just saying that it's pathetic if we get to the point where we are whining about luck. The Eagles got lucky this year, and they're making the most of it so far, which is what good teams do. We'll have our share of luck, good and bad, over time.

 

[AzPatsFan]

A nice comment. But once again guys, our "terrible " Defense was rated as the top 10th in the League; top 8 in points allowed. That's not bad, considering we started 8 newcomers including 6 rookies or sophomores,and lost our passrushers to IR. Next year those guys will be much improved, as Belichick always says the biggest jump players make is from Rookies to Sophomores. Plus we will probably add three or four more defensive players up high...

The Offense simply got better than the the #1 Offense of 2007. It added depth (OT, RB(s), QB, WR) and a fearsome running game to go with the passing.

Balanced teams win championships. There is a fearsome Juggernaut a-building in Foxboro!!

 

[Deus Irae]

Not saying whether or not it was luck - I don't really care ... just saying that it's pathetic if we get to the point where we are whining about luck. The Eagles got lucky this year, and they're making the most of it so far, which is what good teams do. We'll have our share of luck, good and bad, over time.

1.) This is a message board. OF COURSE people are going to bemoan bad luck. If people stop doing that, you might as well shut down ever sports board on the internet.

2.) There are two types of luck. There's the "%$$%@# ***Ante didn't catch the ball!" luck and there's the "his knee blew out without anyone hitting him" luck. One you point to as a reason and it's perfectly valid to most people. The other is usually pointed to as an excuse, and people laugh at you.

3.) If you look at all 4 Patriots Super Bowl games this decade, you'll find that "luck" played a huge part in all of them.

 

[AzPatsFan]

For all the Brady talk, in 2008 the biggest shortcoming was the defense, with the secondary at the top of the list. Even without Brady, the Patriots have a better offense than most of the playoff teams. Has a BB defense ever done worse on third down and red zone?

Nuts! Statisitics do lie. Yes the Patriots did surrender high percentage of TDs when Teams penetrated thier RED Zone. But they did that near a league low, only 45 times.

BB plays a sound fundamental, "bend-don't-break" Defense. Many an opponents drive, died long before they got to the RED zone. It would merely take a half dozen swings in TD scores converted to FGs, and the Pats Defense would rank with the top three.

 

[borg]

Nuts! Statisitics do lie. Yes the Patriots did surrender high percentage of TDs when Teams penetrated thier RED Zone. But they did that near a league low, only 45 times.

BB plays a sound fundamental, "bend-don't-break" Defense. Many an opponents drive, died long before they got to the RED zone. It would merely take a half dozen swings in TD scores converted to FGs, and the Pats Defense would rank with the top three.

Against teams that ended up in the playoffs, points the D surrendered:

9/21 Miami 38
10/12 San Diego 30
11/2 Indy 18
11/23 Miami 28
11/30 Pitt 33
12/21 Ariz 7

Not too impressive, especially when you dismiss the Az JV

 

[AzPatsFan]

Against teams that ended up in the playoffs, points the D surrendered:

9/21 Miami 38
10/12 San Diego 30
11/2 Indy 18
11/23 Miami 28
11/30 Pitt 33
12/21 Ariz 7

Not too impressive, especially when you dismiss the Az JV

The first Miami game was a fluke when they sprung the Single Wing. The players and coaches couldn't adapt. The late Phish scores in the second game were meaningless.

The Pitt game was all ST and Offense cheap scores. Take away those cheap TDs and Pitt only scores 19 or less.

The only real Defense breakdowns was against the Bolts. One game in 16 is not bad.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Add the Cowboys' total collapse to the luck category. The Eagles wouldn't have even been a contender for a Wild Card in the AFC. Now they are a game away from the Super Bowl because of the NFC.

For whatever reason, the Eagles seem to have loads of luck when it comes to the final sprint. This isn't the first time where they entered Dec being all but out of it, only to rally at the end and becoming contenders.

It was the same in '06-they were 5-6 with Dallas in full control of the NFCE and other teams with the WC, until they got...fading Carolina, Redstinks w/ a first time starter, bickering Giants, fading Dallas, and a Falcons team Mora Jr all but quit on. Same with this year-Cards @home, Giants w/ the Burress & Pierce distractions lingering, lowly Clowns, reeling Redskins, and a Dallas team that all but mailed it in. Then in the playoffs, they got a pretty bad Vikings team, and then a Giants team that was whiffed from everything that happened to them last month. And then, of course, Tampa and Chicago choking in the last week against bad teams.

Not trying to sound like sour grapes, but just offering another perspective of their good fortunes in the final sprints.

 

[Rob0729]

A nice comment. But once again guys, our "terrible " Defense was rated as the top 10th in the League; top 8 in points allowed. That's not bad, considering we started 8 newcomers including 6 rookies or sophomores,and lost our passrushers to IR. Next year those guys will be much improved, as Belichick always says the biggest jump players make is from Rookies to Sophomores. Plus we will probably add three or four more defensive players up high...

The Offense simply got better than the the #1 Offense of 2007. It added depth (OT, RB(s), QB, WR) and a fearsome running game to go with the passing.

Balanced teams win championships. There is a fearsome Juggernaut a-building in Foxboro!!

I don't think the defense was terrible this year, but I don't think it was as good as their ranking. The thing is the last few years, the defense hasn't been what it was during 2003 or 2004.

In 2003, the defense was special, once or twice a decade type of defense. It carried an average offense to the Super Bowl. Maybe 2006. But that is the only one that was close.

The defense in 2004 wasn't quite as good, but it was still an elite defense for that season. We haven't see a defense like those two since.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Not sure if this was posted earlier but I thought an interesting statistic from this weekend's games were that three of the top defensive teams are still playing: Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Philadelphia. Here's hoping the Pats can once again regain that defensive dominance and swagger they once had in those Super Bowl teams.

Didn't the Rams win the '99 Super Bowl with a high powered O, but a mediocre D?

The same with Denver in '98-they were ranked #27 against the pass that year.

You can also say the same about Indy and their porous run D 2 years ago.

 

[mayoclinic]

Didn't the Rams win the '99 Super Bowl with a high powered O, but a mediocre D?

The same with Denver in '98-they were ranked #27 against the pass that year.

You can also say the same about Indy and their porous run D 2 years ago.

True, but it's not a very good recipe for success. A balanced approach is much more likely to be successful on both offense and defense. We may be top 10, but we're not the same as we were in 2003-2004 (or even 2006), and definitely not up to the top attacking defenses in the NFL, many of whom are still playing.

Also, Indy in 2006 (and to a lesser extent Arizona right now) are good examples of teams with mediocre defenses that got hot around the playoffs and played much better than they had all season.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

True, but it's not a very good recipe for success. A balanced approach is much more likely to be successful on both offense and defense. We may be top 10, but we're not the same as we were in 2003-2004 (or even 2006), and definitely not up to the top attacking defenses in the NFL, many of whom are still playing.

Also, Indy in 2006 (and to a lesser extent Arizona right now) are good examples of teams with mediocre defenses that got hot around the playoffs and played much better than they had all season.

Come to think of it...

The Rams had a VERY cake schedule in '99-their only decent opponent was the Titans at midseason. Otherwise, their D looked alot better that it was b/c of just that. They beat the Vikings in the NFCDG b/c they merely outscored them by double digits, and the Bucs in the NFCCG had a rookie QB w/ no offense. Then in the Super Bowl, the Titans exposed them for [insert Denny Green comment]...only to luck out by 1 yard.

The Broncs forced alot of TOs that year. I believe their playoff TO ratio was very high.

Indy got Bob Sanders back for the playoffs-their D, especially their run D, improved dramatically.

 

[Tunescribe]

The best combination of offense, defense, special teams and luck wins championships.

I'd put offense third in that list.

 

[PatSunday]

You think Philly is glad they shelled out for a prime CB who can make picks in January...........wish we had a guy like that around here.

We do in another position... his name is Rodney Harrison. He has the most total post season interceptions of active players in the NFL, though Samuel tied him in the Giants game. And wasn't it Rodney who took Samuel under his wing?