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Defense Wins Championships

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SoCal Pmen, Jan 13, 2009.

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  1. SoCal Pmen

    SoCal Pmen 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #54 Jersey

    Not sure if this was posted earlier but I thought an interesting statistic from this weekend's games were that three of the top defensive teams are still playing: Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Philadelphia. Here's hoping the Pats can once again regain that defensive dominance and swagger they once had in those Super Bowl teams.
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The best combination of offense, defense, special teams and luck wins championships.
     
  3. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

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    You think Philly is glad they shelled out for a prime CB who can make picks in January...........wish we had a guy like that around here.
     
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Of course, they'd have been down a quick 7 is said CB hadn't been bailed out by a horrible throw.
     
  5. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

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    Luck? You mean like needing Tampa Bay to bow to Oakland on week 17 and then traveling to a 7 loss team's home field field for the NFCCG? Talk about the stars aligning.
     
  6. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, crazy sh!t like that. I like a good defense as much as the next guy but if Samuel makes the catch for us or the "back of the helmet" catch doesn't happen we're likely (definitely in the Samuel case) talking about winning the SB because of the best offense in the history of the league.
     
  7. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    For all the Brady talk, in 2008 the biggest shortcoming was the defense, with the secondary at the top of the list. Even without Brady, the Patriots have a better offense than most of the playoff teams. Has a BB defense ever done worse on third down and red zone?
     
  8. DarrylS

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    I agreed before and will agree again, this goes on and on.. in the past two years we have averaged 13.5 wins in a regular season.. a tribute to balance.. these sexy defenses are all well and good, but would not take Baltimore's O as it is obviously deficient.

    For those who continually want to turn back the hands of time and want the Pats to resign Samuel why doesn't someone show how his salary would fit under the salary cap??? Who would not have been on this team last year...

    Cliches are what they are, an easy answer to a complex issue..
     
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  9. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Without looking up stats, and then looking at injuries, i'm just gonna answer your questions with a NO, and a NO. I assume you were not including his Cleveland days :D
     
  10. Rob0729

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    Add the Cowboys' total collapse to the luck category. The Eagles wouldn't have even been a contender for a Wild Card in the AFC. Now they are a game away from the Super Bowl because of the NFC.
     
  11. Rob0729

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    I do agree that defense wins Championships. Look at the Super Bowl last year, the better defense won against the better offense. The Pats haven't won a Super Bowl since the decline of Harrison and Bruschi and the loss of Crennel (although they came seconds away last year).

    Since the 1999 season, there hasn't been a team that has won the Super Bowl without a strong defense other than the Colts who magically got a strong defense in the playoffs. But teams with Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, and Brad Johnson leading their respective offenses have won Super Bowls. The 2000 Ravens went something like a month without an offensive TD and won the Super Bowl.
     
  12. Rob0729

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    On thing people forget is the Eagles backed into the playoffs. The only reason that Samuel is doing well in January is because the Cowboys and Bucs failed so badly they let a 9-6-1 team into the playoffs.

    If the Pats got into the playoffs, they could very well be playing this weekend too. Granted they would have had to play Baltimore first and Pittsburgh, but no one in the AFC is exactly playing great football. The Pats were just unlucky to be in a fluke year where 11-5 isn't good enough to get into the playoffs which hasn't happened since 1985.
     
  13. borg

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    Attack defenses vs bend but don't break....hmmmmmm....
     
  14. mayoclinic

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    I would disagree with you slightly and rephrase it: "For all the Brady talk, in 2008 the biggest shortcoming was the defense, with the pass rush at the top of the list".

    We knew the secondary was going to be less than stellar after losing Asante. What we got in 2008 is pretty much what we could expect. What we didn't expect was going from around 46 sacks in 2007 to 30 in 2008. Some of that can be attributed to injuries (AD), some to aging (Vrabel), and perhaps some to the secondary, but we seem to have become a much more passive defense. A good pass rush would take a lot of pressure off of the secondary. Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are known more for aggressive pressuring defenses than for having great corners, although it never hurts to have both.
     
  15. mayoclinic

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    Why do we care about other teams' luck, especially one in the NFC. Or even about our own luck for that matter. Fans from other teams would claim we've had plenty of it over the years (Tuck rule anyone?). I don't think the Pats are crying about their bad luck. We should be crying about our inability to stop the Jets on third and 15, and all the other horrible red zone and third down plays we gave up because of a "bend but don't break" philosophy, lack of pass rush, and poor secondary play.
     
  16. Synovia

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    Yes, and almost all of those teams had strong offenses the year they won. You have to have a great TEAM to win the superbowl. Offense, defense, and ST. Most teams that win it are top 10 in all 3 categories, and usually top 5 in one or 2.
     
  17. Rob0729

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    I'm not crying about bad luck. Just tired of hearing how Samuel was the difference in the Eagles getting into the playoffs and going this far while the difference the Pats didn't get into the playoffs.

    I am not crying about the Pats at all. They went 11-5 without Brady all season and without Adalius Thomas for more than half the year plus a tom of players on IR. Any other year they would have gotten into the playoffs with this record and potentially even had a bye. I am proud of what this team did this season. It sucks that they didn't get into the playoffs, but I have little to no complaints on how they performed considering the situation they were in.
     
  18. Synovia

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    Anyone who discusses the Tuck rule as luck should have their "rational discussions about football" card removed.

    Luck has a very real affect on football. Luck is the difference between an average team going 6-10 and 10-6.
     
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not saying that you don't need a strong team. But you are more likely to get away with an average offense and special teams with a dominant defense than an average defense and special teams and a dominant offense.
     
  20. PJM

    PJM On the Roster

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    One theory on this comes from Football Prospectus. Good defence is essential but it is hard to maintain a good D year on year according to their statistical analysis. Offense tends to be more reliable so it makes sense to invest in offensive talent and hope the D has a good year. I am not a statistician so I can't check their calculations but essentially that is Polian's policy at the Colts and it worked once.

    The Patriots are similar right now: we have a very consistent offense and a D that could catch lightning in a bottle with one or two improvements. If we add a CB to shore up the secondary it is not hard to imagine a year where Thomas, Mayo, Seymour and Wilfork have pro-bowl seasons and the team dominates on both sides of the ball.

    One final point, the most consistent defenses in the league, in my opinion, over the last few years have been the Steelers, Ravens and Eagles. They have won 2 titles between them this decade.
     
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