Defense Proposal Question: hire Romeo Crenel as DC

[RodThePat]

I was going to start a thread on this, but I was sure it would have been moved to this thread, or another one like it. So here goes...

I wanted to compare the first 7 games of last season to the first 7 games of this season, and see if the defense has improved at all from this point last year. Here are the numbers:

Category: 2011 - 2012
Points allowed: 160 (22.9/g) - 163 (23.3/g)
Yards allowed: 2969 (424.1/g) - 2632 (376.0/g)
Rush yds allowed: 707 (101.0/g) - 602 (86.0/g)
Pass yds allowed: 2262 (323.1/g) - 2030 (290.0/g)

I would suggest that, on the whole, the defense is performing better than it was up to this point in 2011. It seems like the Pats are getting roasted all the time, but it *is* a slight improvement from last year, at least to this point in the season. We'll see where they are at the end of the year.

This season they have faced Locker, Kolb, Flacco, Fitzpatrick, Manning, Wilson and Sanchez. Not exactly a murder's row of quarterbacks. 7 games in last season they at least had played against Rivers, Romo and Roethlisberger. You may very well make the argument that this secondary isn't playing as poorly as last season's, but the results have pretty much been the same.

 

[12ClutchFactor]

This season they have faced Locker, Kolb, Flacco, Fitzpatrick, Manning, Wilson and Sanchez. Not exactly a murder's row of quarterbacks. 7 games in last season they at least had played against Rivers, Romo and Roethlisberger. You may very well make the argument that this secondary isn't playing as poorly as last season's, but the results have pretty much been the same.

The difference is that you kind of expected it last season with the way our offense was humming along and exploding. Last year it didn't feel as bad when other offenses were lighting it up because they almost had no choice, the exception being a couple of games. Opposing teams had to air it out, out of necessity.

This year, take away Denver and Baltimore, and this offense hasn't really exploded. More so, they have struggled at times. This year's defense hasn't had to deal with teams gunning it down field because of circumstance. Instead, teams are gunning it down the field because they know they can.

 

[ATippett56]

I would suggest that, on the whole, the defense is performing better than it was up to this point in 2011.

After 4 preseason games and 26 quarters of regular season football, the New England Patriots pass defense allows the following statistics to of all quarterbacks in the NFL, Mark Sanchez:

16 comp/20 atts 190 passing yards 1 TD 0 Int

To suggest the pass defense has improved from last season is completely disingenuous considering Mark Sanchez entered the game with less than a 50% completion rate. To allow an opposing quarterback the aforementioned second half performance at home on national television is completely unacceptable. Damn, I doubt Tom Brady has posted those second half numbers in any game this season.

 

[aluminum seats]

We need a new DC if that coordinator would help secure and develop the secondary (and hire better coaches for the secondary).

Yes, the talent should be better. However, great coaches do pretty good with average and even below average talent.

This is why it's puzzling why some are so adament that these coaches (or, at a minimum, the current coaches' approach to coaching, which is essentially the same thing) shouldn't be changed. Even if you want to say it's all on the players (which is weird), why not admit that a change of coaching should be considered as well?

 

[Kontradiction]

LET'S BE CLEAR

It is not that we need a new and improved defense. We need a new and improved secondary. The front seven is fine and continues to get better.

We need a new DC if that coordinator would help secure and develop the secondary (and hire better coaches for the secondary).

Yes, the talent should be better. However, great coaches do pretty good with average and even below average talent. Would weak coaching have developed Ninkovich and Love?

I'm pretty sure that you're agreeing with my stance on a lot of parts of your post. Just one thing: the DC is not responsible for drafting or "securing" talent. That's the job of the GM which, in this case, is the head coach.

 

[ralmat55]

The 2004-2007 Patriots were pretty good at slowing NFL passing attacks. Two of those teams went to Super Bowls and one of them won it.

They still had the Mike Vrabels, Willie McGiniests and Richard Seymours around. GREAT players who could get a little pressure on the QBs without innovative rushes and blitzes.

 

[Kontradiction]

They still had the Mike Vrabels, Willie McGiniests and Richard Seymours around. GREAT players who could get a little pressure on the QBs without innovative rushes and blitzes.

...I rest my case.

Take your point about the front seven back then and apply it to the secondary now. It's a talent issue.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Sooooo, I honestly think this defense needs a revamp, a fresh set of eyes to get these guys going and maybe pick up some better talent in the draft. Not taking anything from Bill or Scar, but I really think we need to go in a new direction as far as defensive coordinator goes. We've been stuck in this funk for some years now and its very frustrating.

Examples:

1. Greenbay: terrible defense... Dopm Capers comes in and they win a Superbowl.

2. Houston: Their defense set all types of records for being bad a few years ago. Wade Phillips comes in and they have a top 5 defense.

3. St. Louis: Terrible defense, bottom of the league. Jeff Fisher comes in and they are now a top 10 defense.

Proposal: What if the Kansas City Chiefs fire Romeo after this season, which actually should happen, what do you think about picking him up for the Patriots defensive coordinator? I know its a stretch but maybe the potential ROI (sorry, my accounting background taking over ) could be worth it.

Thoughts?

Personell had a big hand in some of these turnarounds. Houston for example they signed Jonathon Joseph to bolster their secondary and drafted JJ Watt who's a stud. If we too added a legit #1 CB, a reliable safety, and a stud passrusher to go opposite Jones, this defense too would be something special regardless of the coach.

 

[aluminum seats]

It's a talent issue.

Ugh, stop it. Of course the Pats secondary could use a talent upgrade.

What I don't understand is why "the coaches and their approach are just fine" brigade don't conceed that clearly coaching is an issue at well: there are detailed suggestions from these people about different approaches to the secondary RIGHT NOW, with the SAME personnel/talent, that could be taken to improve the secondary's play. THAT'S coaching. See the contradiction?

 

[ralmat55]

...I rest my case.

Take your point about the front seven back then and apply it to the secondary now. It's a talent issue.

My point was the Pats still had enough EXCEPTIONAL players in the front seven to overcome the poor coaching. If we have to wait around until the Patriots can draft the next Ronnie Lott and Mike Haynes to have a pass defense that doesn't make Mark Sanchez look like Tom Brady, then we're going to be waiting a long time and the real Tom Brady will have to play into his 50s to win another ring.

 

[mayoclinic]

Harbaugh is a former QB turned offensive minded HC. He has to have a guy come in with a vision and in this case it was his college DC. Who didn't have a ton of success earlier in his coaching career...but landed amidst a pile of talent this time around. Fangio is 54 and had been at it a long time.

Same deal with Reid in Philly, who gave Jim Johnson complete autonomy on defense because offense supposedly was his expertise, which is why they have sucked since he lost that guy on D (not to mention since he lost his own fastball on offensive genius). Belichick was a great defensive mind long before landing here or landing his first HC gig. RAC and even Charlie, not so much. But they were guys who knew how to do what he wanted done. Which only happens when you've worked with him in the system he developed within or worked your way up for him between the late eighties and the present... The veteran exceptions are guys like Pees who worked with someone who did (Saban). Heck, Saban is even where Josh came from after a two year stint as an offensive assistant at Michigan State. Coaching is a fraternity and guys stick with what they know unless they don't know and then they find someone they can work with who appears to.

Patricia came here from Syracuse so I'm not sure what the draw was. But he's been here since 2006 so what you see is what he has learned on Bill's terms. Supposedly he is one of the typically bright and hard working guys out of the Mangini, McDaniels mold. But he is presently making the most he can out of the hand he is dealt by his mentor the HC and GM and periodically DC hereabouts.

If Belichick thought it was push back or ideas he lacked he has a long list of associates he can jam ideas with. The genius game plan we all miss from the first SB was something he hit on while musing about how you could stop that Rams offense if you got a second shot at them...with Ernie and Saban. RAC was just the installer. And he had the tools at hand to do the job. Huge difference between then and now. And that's not to say RAC is the village idiot. Just not the missing link, either.

Rappore is always key, and that's why Ron Rivera didn't stick as a DC in Chicago even though the D was elite. He and former DC turned HC Lovie Smith didn't see eye to eye.

Agreed. Look at when Dom Capers was here as secondary coach in 2008 - he and BB didn't have rapport. And as long as BB is the HC, the DC needs to be on the same wavelength as him.

I don't think that 6 games is enough time to judge Matt Patricia as DC. He's obviously a smart guy, and BB hand picked him over the more experienced Pepper Johnson to become his DC. It's still early. I'm a little more concerned about the secondary, which is continuing to look discombobulated and fragmented and gives up big plays at an alarming rate. I do think that some adjustments need to be made, both in terms of personnel and in how they are used. But I don't have as much of a scorched earth attitude as Kontra.

 

[ivanvamp]

After 4 preseason games and 26 quarters of regular season football, the New England Patriots pass defense allows the following statistics to of all quarterbacks in the NFL, Mark Sanchez:

16 comp/20 atts 190 passing yards 1 TD 0 Int

To suggest the pass defense has improved from last season is completely disingenuous considering Mark Sanchez entered the game with less than a 50% completion rate. To allow an opposing quarterback the aforementioned second half performance at home on national television is completely unacceptable. Damn, I doubt Tom Brady has posted those second half numbers in any game this season.

Obviously a terrible performance there in the 2nd half. Here are Sanchez' career games vs NE:

9/20/09: 14-22 (63.6%), 163 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 101.1 rating
11/22/09: 8-21 (38.1%), 136 yds, 1 td, 4 int, 37.1 rating
9/19/10: 21-30 (70.0%), 220 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 124.3 rating
12/6/10: 17-33 (51.5%), 164 yds, 0 td, 3 int, 27.8 rating
1/16/11: 16-25 (64.0%), 194 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 127.3 rating (playoffs)
10/9/11: 16-26 (61.5%), 166 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 105.6 rating
11/13/11: 20-39 (51.3%), 306 yds, 1 td, 2 int, 64.7 rating
10/21/12: 28-41 (68.3%), 328 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 90.3 rating

So he's actually had 4 games vs. NE that were better than his game last week. It's not news that he's had some good games against the Patriots.

 

[Boomer B]

I made a post earlier about the need to change the evaluation methods of DB's. Belichick likes his DBs to be solid in run support and he likes players to have versatility to play special teams. He specifically called McCourty a "4 down player" when he drafted him.

How many good DBs have the Pats passed on because they weren't "4 down players" or because they weren't good in run support? Probably way to many. The NFL is a passing league and he needs to draft DBs who's main asset is being able to cover, not for run support or special teams.

I think Belichick has to change his ways and become more aggresive. Get guys who can play bump and run, man to man coverage and start blitzing.