Defense needs complete overhaul

[patsgo]

defense cant stop any one, its time for scheme changes, how about a attacking pressure type d, vrabel needs to go , bruschi needs to go, we need someone who can cover a tight end, the secondary needs a complete overhaul, merriweather kept as a starter, sanders can be a #3 safety, both corners need upgrades, when the game is on the line they have proven they cant make the stop., give capers the coordinator post, pees hasnt gotten the job done, it time to make some big moves and shake this pathetic group up

 

[billdog3484]

I think that our Defense is getting better. we are pretty young. you also have to take into consideration that we are very injured. of our starting Defense to start the season, Warren, Thomas, and Harrison did no play last night. Plus, Wheatley was out. It's very hard to overcome so many injuries within a season.

I personally think our team has done a great job making up for the injurieis, but there is only so much you can do

 

[patsgo]

I think that our Defense is getting better. we are pretty young. you also have to take into consideration that we are very injured. of our starting Defense to start the season, Warren, Thomas, and Harrison did no play last night. Plus, Wheatley was out. It's very hard to overcome so many injuries within a season.

I personally think our team has done a great job making up for the injurieis, but there is only so much you can do

are you watching the same d im watching??injuries are always there, teams walk up and down the field on them, thats reality , no pressure and they give up a ton of third downs

 

[captadamnj]

If our defense prevents 2 long yardage first down conversions, this team goes 19-0 last season, wins the super bowl, and sits atop the AFC East all alone this season. That's the reality. Both of the plays hurt, but this team has been hit with injuries and is doing a tremendous job of infusing youth. It doesn't happen overnite, but I am very encouraged by the prospects for the defense moving forward.

 

[BradyManny]

defense cant stop any one, its time for scheme changes, how about a attacking pressure type d, vrabel needs to go , bruschi needs to go, we need someone who can cover a tight end, the secondary needs a complete overhaul, merriweather kept as a starter, sanders can be a #3 safety, both corners need upgrades, when the game is on the line they have proven they cant make the stop., give capers the coordinator post, pees hasnt gotten the job done, it time to make some big moves and shake this pathetic group up

Or they could just add players like Ty Warren, Adalius Thomas and Rodney Harrison. Oh, wait....

 

[condon84]

We have the players. Even the "older" ones are contributing. My problem is that we are a read and react defense instead of an attacking defense for the most part. In the second half, we started attacking the Jets and we got off the field on a couple of 3 and outs. We were doing well. THen the Jets ran a screen to counter our pressure and suddenly we stopped attacking and went back to read and react. Now if you are willing to give up yards to prevent bigger plays, you have to make sure you don't give up touchdowns in the red zone, which our D is doing right now.

IMO, we have two ILBs with enough speed to be more of an attacking team out there. Guyton played the majority of the defense in the second half when were attacking them on D. He was great at coverage and also at blitzing. I appreciate what Bruschi's done for this team, but we are a better defense out there with Guyton.

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[Mack Herron]

We do NOT have the players of defense. We definitely need 2 corners and a safety, and also an athletic outside LB. Maybe some of these guys are on the roster (Wheatley?), but they have not shown up yet.

 

[Rob0729]

defense cant stop any one, its time for scheme changes, how about a attacking pressure type d, vrabel needs to go , bruschi needs to go, we need someone who can cover a tight end, the secondary needs a complete overhaul, merriweather kept as a starter, sanders can be a #3 safety, both corners need upgrades, when the game is on the line they have proven they cant make the stop., give capers the coordinator post, pees hasnt gotten the job done, it time to make some big moves and shake this pathetic group up

How about your Jets giving up 511 yards?

They were missing Ty Warren and Adalius Thomas last night. Those two would have made a difference in the game. I won't include Harrison since he won't be back. But Wheatley might make an impact too when he returns.

The young guys are improving which is encouraging. The vets will be back at least Warren.

 

[BelichickFan]

In case you haven't noticed, patsgo, we are in the midst of that overhaul. Mayo, Guyton, Woods, Meriweather, Wheatley, Wilhite, they'll all be starters or significant role players for a while. Let's just hope that Crable can rush the passer for us starting next year.

 

[patsgo]

How about your Jets giving up 511 yards?

They were missing Ty Warren and Adalius Thomas last night. Those two would have made a difference in the game. I won't include Harrison since he won't be back. But Wheatley might make an impact too when he returns.

The young guys are improving which is encouraging. The vets will be back at least Warren.

warren and thomas were on the field against the colts, the chargers, the dolphins, the eagles last year, the ravens last year, the giants last year, if you dont see that teams march up and down the field on them , and that they put absolutely no pressure on the qb, then i suggest you remone your rose colored glasses and call a spade a spade, hell they almost lost to kc at the end of the game , they marched on them

 

[BelichickFan]

We do NOT have the players of defense. We definitely need 2 corners and a safety, and also an athletic outside LB. Maybe some of these guys are on the roster (Wheatley?), but they have not shown up yet.

I generally agree, we need Wheatley to step up and Wilhite to be a good #3. We need Crable to make an impact next year. We need a Safety as Sanders is a UFA this offseason and maybe another CB as Hobbs is only signed through next year.

Mostly, though, we need to re-sign Vince.

 

[patsgo]

In case you haven't noticed, patsgo, we are in the midst of that overhaul. Mayo, Guyton, Woods, Meriweather, Wheatley, Wilhite, they'll all be starters or significant role players for a while. Let's just hope that Crable can rush the passer for us starting next year.

i agree but it seems they are plugging the new guys in and getting the same results, the scheme they run has very little pressure on the qb, all i know its definetly not a top 10 defense, and when we need a stop, more times than not we dont get it

 

[Deus Irae]

In case you haven't noticed, patsgo, we are in the midst of that overhaul. Mayo, Guyton, Woods, Meriweather, Wheatley, Wilhite, they'll all be starters or significant role players for a while. Let's just hope that Crable can rush the passer for us starting next year.

We really should break this all down for people who are too knee jerk to be rational.....

NT: Wilfork, considered to be one of the 3 best in the game
DE: Seymour, multiple pro bowler who's not even 30
DE: Warren, solid near pro bowl player, under 30
OLB: Thomas, clearly still an excellent player
OLB: Vrabel, some are questioning him
ILB: Mayo, ROTY candidate
ILB: Bruschi, clearly in decline
CB1: Hobbs, nowhere near old, and playing well
CB2: Wheatley, rookie had taken the starter's job before injury
S1: Meriweather, second year player who's vastly improved
S2: Sanders, young player who's very heady, misses angles
ILB: Guyton, rookie getting considerable time and playing well
OLB: Woods, young player doing well in reserve role


Add that up and there are a grand total of TWO starting positions where age is/may be an issue. In Bruschi's case, the team clearly has a player who can step in for him on at least 2 of the 3 downs. In Vrabel's case, the jury is out. However, it's pretty clear to anyone who actually breaks down the roster that there's not any need for an 'overhaul'.

Sadly, there are those who feel a need to prop up the sky.

 

[BelichickFan]

all i know its definetly not a top 10 defense, and when we need a stop, more times than not we dont get it

That, I agree with. However with all the young guys on the field I think the overhaul you're asking for is underway. The LB crew is suddenly looking young and athletic , we're a player or two from the same in the secondary. Getting Vince and Seymour re-signed may be the biggest issue.

 

[BelichickFan]

We really should break this all down for people who are too knee jerk to be rational.....

NT: Wilfork, considered to be one of the 3 best in the game
DE: Seymour, multiple pro bowler who's not even 30
DE: Warren, solid near pro bowl player, under 30
OLB: Thomas, clearly still an excellent player
OLB: Vrabel, some are questioning him
ILB: Mayo, ROTY candidate
ILB: Bruschi, clearly in decline
CB1: Hobbs, nowhere near old, and playing well
CB2: Wheatley, rookie had taken the starter's job before injury
S1: Meriweather, second year player who's vastly improved
S2: Sanders, young player who's very heady, misses angles
ILB: Guyton, rookie getting considerable time and playing well
OLB: Woods, young player doing well in reserve role


Add that up and there are a grand total of TWO starting positions where age is/may be an issue. In Bruschi's case, the team clearly has a player who can step in for him on at least 2 of the 3 downs. In Vrabel's case, the jury is out. However, it's pretty clear to anyone who actually breaks down the roster that there's not any need for an 'overhaul'.

The big issue is 2010 as the bolded players all have their contracts expire after 2009. Only Sanders is a significant UFA this year. 2010 and beyond is in question, for 2009 we should be loaded. Even for 2010, though, half the starters are there now and playing well.

 

[Deus Irae]

The big issue is 2010 as the bolded players all have their contracts expire after 2009. Only Sanders is a significant UFA this year. 2010 and beyond is in question, for 2009 we should be loaded. Even for 2010, though, half the starters are there now and playing well.

Absolutely, and the Chicken Littles are missing key notes:

Even after last night's game, the Patriots are 11th in the league in yardage allowed and 13th in points allowed. Where the defense has struggled, unfortunately, is on 3rd down, where they are one of the worst in the league. This is significant because of the variables involved:

1: No experienced depth at corner
2: Lack of experience when Mayo and Guyton are in
3: Low blitz scheme in order to protect the vulnerable secondary
4: Injuries

The defense needs players, as every defense does, but it doesn't need anything approaching an overhaul.

 

[BradyManny]

Absolutely, and the Chicken Littles are missing key notes:

Even after last night's game, the Patriots are 11th in the league in yardage allowed and 13th in points allowed. Where the defense has struggled, unfortunately, is on 3rd down, where they are one of the worst in the league. This is significant because of the variables involved:

1: No experienced depth at corner
2: Lack of experience when Mayo and Guyton are in
3: Low blitz scheme in order to protect the vulnerable secondary
4: Injuries

The defense needs players, as every defense does, but it doesn't need anything approaching an overhaul.

I hate to admit it because I never thought it was going to be a real factor, but I think #3 might be the biggest issue there. I didn't think losing Asante would mean much, and I don't think its just him, but we seem to be more conservative with the pass rush in favor of dropping more in coverage.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hate to admit it because I never thought it was going to be a real factor, but I think #3 might be the biggest issue there.

Well, when you've got a young secondary that's always getting injured, you can't get any real consistency. The unit lost its heart when Rodney went down, the team decided on puppies instead of veterans during camp, Wheatley went down just as he'd taken the starter's job, and Wilhite has had more ups and downs than a roller coaster.

This was going to be a year that saw the offense protecting the defense as the transition to younger players continued. The moment Brady went down, the entire structure of the season was lost. What's happening on message boards like this one is that a lot of people don't seem to be able to accept that perfection is unachievable. This team is 6-4 without Brady, and with seemingly half the defense in a M*A*S*H unit, and these people can't accept that 6-4 is actually a pretty good record under the circumstances.

I'd suggest to them that they go back an look at what was being said after the preseason, and after the Brady injury first happened.

 

[BradyManny]

Well, when you've got a young secondary that's always getting injured, you can't get any real consistency. The unit lost its heart when Rodney went down, the team decided on puppies instead of veterans during camp, Wheatley went down just as he'd taken the starter's job, and Wilhite has had more ups and downs than a roller coaster.

This was going to be a year that saw the offense protecting the defense as the transition to younger players continued. The moment Brady went down, the entire structure of the season was lost. What's happening on message boards like this one is that a lot of people don't seem to be able to accept that perfection is unachievable. This team is 6-4 without Brady, and with seemingly half the defense in a M*A*S*H unit, and these people can't accept that 6-4 is actually a good record under the circumstances.

I hear you. Frankly that 6-4 could easily be 8-2. To be 6-4 without Brady, Harrison, Maroney, Morris/Jordan at times, and now AD...I mean, come on, what do people want. The fact is, there's still time to improve, our QB has proven he can lead this offense well enough for us to contend, if the D shores up and gets healthy, then we'll have about as good a chance as anybody come playoff time.