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Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    It's an emotional issue. Often religious leaders speak out against it. (My rabbi nearly froths at the mouth in her denunciations.)

    Yet, teacher, it seems to work.

    Death Penalty Deters Murders, Studies Say - CBS News

    Up to 18 lives saved for each execution.

    And here's an interesting anecdote of a would-be murderer doing some research to find out if Illinois is a state that has the death penalty.

    Man accused of stalking woman before killing her in Oak Brook - Chicago Sun-Times

    I think it's clear that most murderers are still agents with some reasoning, so it's not unreasonable to think they'd take into account what their punishment could be.

    I personally don't think we execute enough people. There's a lot of rotten scum out there who spill innocent blood. Why not the noose?

    Just make sure the physics is right--size, weight, physical conditioning--and the guy isn't decapitated like happened in Iraq. Everything boils down to physics, brothers.
     
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The positive thing about putting a murderer to death is it is a sure way to know that the killer bastard will never kill again.

    But, before a person is sentenaced to death it should be "Guilt Without A Doubt"

    When a known without a doubt killer is sentenced to die the execution should take place in a matter of days after being sentenced not twenty years later.

    THREE CHEERS FOR THE DEATH PENALTY WHEN DONE THE KILLER WILL KILL NO MORE, THAT IS A FACT.

    :bricks:
     
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Fry the Bastards...Kill Kill Kill Killlllll !!!!!!!! He said kill and i said kill and he said kill and i said kill and pretty soon we was both jumping up and down screaming kill kill kill

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kill The Killer And The Killer Will Kill No More
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The problem with the death penalty is the cost to the state.. here is an example that I am very familiar with.

    Here is a kid I knew in the 70's, follow this case and try to compute the cost.. at one time during his trial for capitol murder the PD offered to fly me to Fla to testify on his behalf in fact they subpoened me. I refused as a supboena does not have any authority across state lines.. they did fly down some people I used to work with.

    The Commission on Capital Cases updates this information regularly

    In another case of a girl I worked with she was charged with Capitol Murder and they flew four of us to Richmond, Va. and put us up for 4 days with per diem. None of us had anything to offer, and she was convicted, but did not get the death penalty.

    Every step is extremely costly, and by the time they do the deed it exceeds the cost of keeping the inmate alive..

    Not sure how these conclusions were reached.. difficult concept to study, and even more difficult to define the effect. There are so many variables to control and consider.

    BTW this is a 2007 article..
     
  6. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Yeah, it costs more to execute someone, with the automatic appeals and the like people on the left have mandated, than to keep them in jail for life.

    I acknowledge that. So what?

    How much is saved if deterrence works, as it apparently does? How much is saved in murders that don't occur?

    It's complicated.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Was not aware that this was a partisan issue, the safeguards have been put in place by the Supreme Court... who provide that each case be vigorously defended.

    I am not convinced that you can quantify that it is a deterrent. There are studies on both sides of the article that can argue both sides of this issue. During this time when most states are facing a budget crunch, the last thing they probably want to do is subsidize the legal efforts of convicted murders.

    Personally prefer prisons like Florence, Colorado for the hardest of the hardcore murderers... it is cheaper, and the death is prolonged.
     
  8. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    You weren't aware that the courts were partisan?

    What planet have you been living on? The Burger Court? Come on, Darryl!

    Busing? Doesn't Boston know a thing or two about that? Libs in their white enclaves like Arthur Garrity forcing children to take very long bus rides for force integration?

    How'd that work out? When judges blunder, the remedy is impeachment :: Jeff Jacoby

    Of course, the Warren Burger Supreme Court wasn't left-wing enough for our current president, who looks more and more like a one-termer to me.

    Obama On Tape In 2001: Warren Court Not Radical Enough Nice Deb
     
  9. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    You're wrong. Lately the spate of studies that I linked to on CBS News show that there is indeed a deterrence effect.

    The argument now seems to be how much.

    But you need to do some research to make a statement that is non-verifiable. What studies in particular are you referring to? There are multiple ones that I can reference.

    Here's another link telling you there have been a dozen studies all showing a deterrence effect for capital punishment since 2001. Studies spur new death penalty debate - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

    I guess I'm more progressive on this issue than you, Darryl, you old dinosaur.
     
  10. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    How heartless is this when people argue that execution is too expensive even if there might deter some other crimes?

    Where's a compassionate liberal when one needs one? Isn't spending a few extra million worth it to save anywhere from three to 18 lives? (The est. of how many are saved from would-be murderers.)
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For such a high powered education that you received at the tax payer dollar, guess they forgot the critical thinking course.. CBS reports something, does not cite the study that took place in 2007 ergo it is fact. CBS reported that Bush did not show up for his National Guard assignment in Alabama ergo it has to be truth, based on your line of reasoning..

    Will not go tit for tat, but there are an equal number on the other side.. my premise is simple do not know how anyone can say that if you give someone the death penalty, then this many murders are avoided.. too many variables too consider to make this study viable.
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is some tin foil in Aisle 7, Art Bell will be on later, right after Alex Jones.. you are making no sense..

    Why deflect to the Boston Busing issue, that has nothing to do with the death penalty.. the Supreme Court has been pretty consistent in its rulings on the death penalty, and you have to provide a "vigorous" (costly) defense.

    The Supreme Court is making the death penatly more costly because of some hair brained conspiracy theory.. :confused::confused::confused::confused:
     
  13. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    The first because you'll lose.

    The second because that's your hope. In the absence of any evidence, I might add.

    BTW, most of what I've learned has been on my own, as an autodidact. I'm an infovore, a word I heard Tyler Cowen use on Russell Roberts's podcast, Econtalk or something.
     
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Problem with the death penalty isn't the cost, imo, it's (i) whether the government should be in the business of killing its citizens and (ii) the problem of executing innocent people.

    It's easy to say that the deterrent effect would be higher and the cost lower if we did away with appeals, etc., but then the likelihood of executing an innocent person goes up.

    Much more info would be needed to assess the studies mentioned in the article -- an article which also mentions other economists claiming the stiudies aren't reliable.

    Personally, I'd want to see the difference b/t life in prison (no parole) and the death penalty.

    (My own view is that I'm opposed to the death penalty except in cases where there is absolutely no question of guilt. But I don't know how that can happen within our legal system. It certainly isn't a mere "guilty" finding by a jury.

    As an alternative, I'd like to see more murderers face "hard" time, as daryl, I think, mentions. Little interaction with others. No job, no TV, no weights to occupy time. Make it a miserable "existence.")
     
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I've always been in favor of the death penalty but now that I see Harry Boy's glee in promoting it, I've got to seriously rethink my position.
     
  16. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    #37 Jersey

    I've always liked the idea of an "Alaskan penal colony" for condemned inmates.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :singing:
    Read it again, DEATH only to those who are guilty beyond doubt, why should they live while their victim lies dead, why should the chance be taken that a "Mike Dukakis" will come along, slop and slobber over them, turn them loose and they kill again.

    Of course we will never know but I wonder how many young women are alive today because Ted Bundy is dead.

    KILLERS CAN'T KILL IF THEY THEMSELVES ARE DEAD

    Bundy:
    {The most frightening of serial killers: a handsome, educated psychopathic law student who stalked and murdered dozens of young college women who looked very much like a young woman who broke off her relationship with him.
    Bundy was a very adept and glib con artist who faked a broken arm in a sling to convince young women to help him carry his textbooks to his car. Once there, he battered them with a baseball bat and carried them off for ghoulish rituals.}

    There were god damn pasty faced sappy liberal loons that actually lit candles for this Bundy Pig when they sent him to Hell

    :bricks:
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  18. DarrylS

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    Learning is meaningless unless you choose to learn both sides of an issue..

    The reality is that Violent Crime is down across the nation, is that because of the death penalty or demographics??.. violent crime is down in the Northeast in the absence of the death penalty, that alone discounts your premise.. there are too many variables to say one way or another.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0306.pdf

    One might argue that crime is down due to abortion, as unwanted children fill our child welfare systems, juvenile justice systems and prisons.. see Freakonomics..

    New England does not have the death penalty, however it has the lowest crime rates..

    Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The states with the highest rates of homicide Maryland, Tennesse, Texas, Alabama and Louisiana, all of which have the death penalty..

    Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Too expensive to get folks there and staff, Montana would be more efficient.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Were it up to me I'd execute any and every repeat offender with a life sentence and no chance of parole. Thing is, it's not up to me.

    A good example of the DP would be those two home invaders in Conneticutt who killed that family, save for the father. They'd be fried in 2 weeks were it up to me.

    The craigs list killer. In the immortal words of one former CIA director, Slam Dunk.

    [​IMG]

    That cop killer who got paroled here in MA. Alley oop. Why is this man still alive, and why does he need 12 years of appeals? He's guilty without any question. Jailed today, fried tomorrow if you ask me.

    My guess is that the absurdity that currently is 20 years of appeals is designed to make the elimination the most vile of human beings more costly by design. A sort of deterent for the DP if you will.
     

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