Deal Approved

[PatsSteve1]

I would like to hear all of the Gene Upshaw bashers spin this away.

* It's all so the agents can get more money with thier little percentage of contracts -

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sure, considering F.A. was delayed a week, every team was ready for this and had two seperate plans - CBA or no CBA.

Still, there's no reason to rush for an arbitrary deadline.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Willie is either restructured or gone. It's really that simple.

Despite 400 posts here by folks like Miguel and Adam, oblivious posters here still do not understand that the Pats cap is about 2.5 million LESS than the NFL baseline because of charges for 2005 player incentives reached. Before offering above value contracts to Givens, Adam and every other player, the Pats are 2.5 million behind most teams. In fact some teams have several MILLIONS of dollars in EXTRA cap room. Here's a hint: those are the teams who'll be paying Adam V and Givens the big bucks. Again, it's that simple.

Get Willie Done. Now. He will take the quick cut to get rid of the cap hit for the roster bonus, as long as the team makes him a good offer on the other end. Give him a half a mil a year raise. save 5 mil or so against the cap and everyone goes home happy.

 

[pats1]

Makes sense, I still do not think DGIV stays, remember, Clevelad has 30MM now.

I'm relying on Givens having enough knowledge to know playing for a Dilfer or Frye-lead team in the middle of a turbulant rebuilding with a lot less...uh...Patriot-perfection to lean on can make things nightmarish.

And why would Adam leave an absolutely PERFECT, COMFORTABLE, and RESPECTED position in New England - especially with the effect on family - for what amounts in a million or so difference? Greed? Sure. But he's a legend here. Isn't that what athletes desire?

 

[patsfan55]

Get Willie Done. Now. He will take the quick cut to get rid of the cap hit for the roster bonus, as long as the team makes him a good offer on the other end. Give him a half a mil a year raise. save 5 mil or so against the cap and everyone goes home happy.

this is prob a question for miguel
but, cant we just take his roster bonus and whats left of his signing bonus, which equals a lil less than 5 mill, and use that as a new signing bonus for a new deal
enabling us to restructure him without cutting him?

 

[pats1]

Look at the roster. Where's the greatest need - not even by talent level, but by pure numbers!

Wide receiver!!! Who is the only receiver on the market - arguably the best - who has grown alongside Brady in a consummate relationship producing back-to-back championships?

Givens! Who else are the Pats to sign? Draft a WR and shove him into the starting spot? That seems unlikely in the Patriots' system. Andre' Davis starting? Troy Brown starting? Bethel Johnson starting? Bam Childress starting? Rich Musinski starting? John Stone starting? Zuriel Smith starting? Michael McGrew starting?

No. Givens has been eased into his role, a role now evident after this past season. The Patriots drafted Branch, Givens, Graham, and Watson with the intent of keeping that core around. Why cook the dinner and let some other team enjoy it? Why dissolve a project that has just began to produce a collective fruit. We're a single year into the Brady-Givens-Branch-Watson-Graham core. Teams know that core is going to work collectively to improve each individual part. Givens benefited heavily from having Brady. Brady benefited from having Givens. Branch benefited from having Givens. Givens benefited from having Branch. When a team extracts a player from that core, it will be to both sides' detriment.

 

[fgssand]

Willie is either restructured or gone. It's really that simple.

Despite 400 posts here by folks like Miguel and Adam, oblivious posters here still do not understand that the Pats cap is about 2.5 million LESS than the NFL baseline because of charges for 2005 player incentives reached. Before offering above value contracts to Givens, Adam and every other player, the Pats are 2.5 million behind most teams. In fact some teams have several MILLIONS of dollars in EXTRA cap room. Here's a hint: those are the teams who'll be paying Adam V and Givens the big bucks. Again, it's that simple.[/QUOTE


Our situation is a lot better than many, while a few are better positioned than we are, I would guess maybe 8-10 teams have signicantly more than we do. If they choose to overpay and throw rediculous cash at AV, he will be gone. I do not see that happening with AV,I do with DGiv buy not with AV, or even Neal. However, when it comes to our position of being able to spend significant cash over the cap - we are one of the top teams. We can and will sign whomever we want. I am sure our leaders BB/SP -the best in the business - will know exactly how to play this hand.

I really do hope Seymour and Branch are locked up soon after the draft.

 

[shirtsleeve]

this is prob a question for miguel
but, cant we just take his roster bonus and whats left of his signing bonus, which equals a lil less than 5 mill, and use that as a new signing bonus for a new deal
enabling us to restructure him without cutting him?

Umm Yeah, I think its for Miguel, but from what I know, the roster bonus comes due no matter what as long as he is on the roster at closing time. If Willie is willing to go through the official cut with a fat half mil raise offer in hand, the team, I think, (help Miguel) saves a boat load against the cap. And Willie gets his atta boy and the Pats philosophy continues in the locker room.

 

[Murphys95]

Look at the roster. Where's the greatest need - not even by talent level, but by pure numbers!

Wide receiver!!! Who is the only receiver on the market - arguably the best - who has grown alongside Brady in a consummate relationship producing back-to-back championships?

Givens! Who else are the Pats to sign? Draft a WR and shove him into the starting spot? That seems unlikely in the Patriots' system. Andre' Davis starting? Troy Brown starting? Bethel Johnson starting? Bam Childress starting? Rich Musinski starting? John Stone starting? Zuriel Smith starting? Michael McGrew starting?

I agree, WR is a need. There are a number of experienced wideouts on the market, including Bruce, Finneran, Jurevicius, and McCardell.

 

[Miguel]

this is prob a question for miguel
but, cant we just take his roster bonus and whats left of his signing bonus, which equals a lil less than 5 mill, and use that as a new signing bonus for a new deal
enabling us to restructure him without cutting him?

Roster bonus - Yes.
Signing bonus - No.

 

[Miguel]

Our situation is a lot better than many, while a few are better positioned than we are, I would guess maybe 8-10 teams have signicantly more than we do.

As it stands right now, 30 teams will have higher adjusted cap numbers than the Pats.

 

[shakadave]

Good news today. The NFL is still the only league that gets it. Still, no deal would have favored the Pats more:

a) We're more nearly OK with staying under the old cap than most teams.

b) An uncapped year would have favored us as a big-market team.

Still, this is better for football and I'm glad the deal got done.

 

[DefenseRules]

As it stands right now, 30 teams will have higher adjusted cap numbers than the Pats.

How come?

 

[Miguel]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../showthread.php?t=31950&highlight=adjustments

 

[DefenseRules]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../showthread.php?t=31950&highlight=adjustments

Miguel I still don't get it (probably need some sleep), but it appears that we are in decent shape cap wise. Right?

 

[pats1]

Miguel I still don't get (probably need some sleep), but it appears that we are in decent shape cap wise. Right?

Right. It just means the 2005 incentives which were "NLTBE" and didn't count against the camp last year - but were meant - will count extra against the cap this year.

It's a credit when a "LTBE" incentive which does count against the cap wasn't met in the previous year.

It's a charge when a "NLTBE" incentive which doesn't count against the cap was met in the previous year and will then count against the cap in the current year.

For the Patriots, they had the 3rd highest amount of "NLTBE" incentives earned in 2005 - a $2.026 million charge in 2006 since they that amount didn't count against the cap in 2005.

 

[DefenseRules]

Right. It just means the 2005 incentives which were "NLTBE" and didn't count against the camp last year - but were meant - will count extra against the cap this year.

It's a credit when a "LTBE" incentive which does count against the cap wasn't met in the previous year.

It's a charge when a "NLTBE" incentive which doesn't count against the cap was met in the previous year and will then count against the cap in the current year.

For the Patriots, they had the 3rd highest amount of "NLTBE" incentives earned in 2005 - a $2.026 million charge in 2006 since they that amount didn't count against the cap in 2005.

Thanks Pats1. It's just to darn late to deal with the NLTBE and LTBE puzzle.
Now it all makes sense.

 

[PatsSteve1]

I wonder if the last 2 years of this extension are like these 2 years where it's again set up to force them to deal with 2 years to go again

 

[AzPatsFan]

I wonder if the last 2 years of this extension are like these 2 years where it's again set up to force them to deal with 2 years to go again

Fer sure. Fer sure!

But you forgert they have been "negotiating for the past two years ,and have two years to go ubtuk this CBA expires in 2008. so they've been at it fro four years! Four years before the next cap runs out is 2008. So they'll start negotiating on the expiration of the next cap 2012, before this current one would have ended in 2008.

 

[patsfan55]

Roster bonus - Yes.
Signing bonus - No.

So, if we decide to restructure, instead of cut and re-sign, what happens to the remaining signing bonus?