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Deal all the 2's up to Jax for 10 and keep 22

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by The_Riddler, Jan 31, 2010.

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  1. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    How's this to take a page out of the Jets book. Build our draft around 2 impact players:

    The #10 overall pick is almost identical to the point value total of our 3 - 2s combined. We keep #22 ultimately giving us 2 of the best LB's in this draft (Rolando McClain and Brandon Graham). Can you imagine these 2 next to Mayo with our young safeties behind them ? WOW !

    As pointed out, this avoids the Jags having to take the hometown hero at 10 and justifies his later selection with one of those two's or a trade up if they feel he may go at the end of the round. They have many more holes to fill than we do so I can see the benefits for both sides.

    The RG and WR we address in FA.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  2. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Your greed should be commended.....
  3. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    Alternatively, we could trade Brady to St. Louis for their 2010 1st and 2nd round picks and their 2011 first rounder, then trade that 2010 #1 overall pick to SF for their #17 overall, plus their 2010 2nd and 3rd and their 2011 first rounder.

    That would give us two firsts and five seconds to work with this year and FOUR firsts and a couple of seconds for 2011.

    Should be able to rebuild with that, I think. Then all we'd have to do is find a QB.

    ;)
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another way to look at it, same scenario you proposed*. Draft McClain, sign Peppers, trade #22 to Denver for Marshall.

    All of sudden our roster has some impact players across the board but lacks some of the past depth.

    *not sure why Jacksonville would ever take this trade, but lets assume they do
  5. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Wow, I like this.....................
  6. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Me too but I want to keep at least one two and if we dont resign willfork, we need to have all three IMO.
  7. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    I like it but that would require using a "bowling ball bag" for a jock strap!
    And this is the NFL, where they spend millions of dollars on Draft softwear, scouts and film graders and across the board the success rate is 10%-13% of all Draft choices actually being decent and above the JAG category. Anyone can Draft a JAG. In your job if you were successful 10% of the time how would that work for the company owners or stockholders?

    Honestly, I think there are some on this board like Mayo,Mgteich, Ochmed, Carolina Tony and Dues who can actually make better Draft day decisions. In fact I would bet on it. You can pick names from a fish bowl and do 10%.
    DW Toys
  8. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Makes sense in some ways about Tebow in round two and then they have two other second rounders in the top sixtyish. Two seconds and a fourth might get it done? Then you have two ones and a two.

    I can see we still need at least four quality FAs to start 2010 and hope three of the draft choices can contribute in 2010 ala Mayo.
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  9. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    I really like this kinda thinking............... wow. Something like this transforms this team instantly...
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In Marshall and Peppers we would also get 2 incredibly high priced players with histories of being prima donnas and being inconsistent. Love McClain, though.
  11. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Agreed, but loads of talent too. Would love to see this for a season though..

    BB would never do it though. He'll play it close to vest. I would love to see TB throwing to Marshall, and I would really LOVE to see Peppers on the Patriots.
  12. Mossed

    Mossed Rookie

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    Stop dreaming lol. You all know BB would never trade away all his seconds in a deep draft, or pay out big contracts to Peppers / Marshall with their own pending FAs.
  13. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    [​IMG]
  14. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    i like that A LOT!
  15. Coach42

    Coach42 Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    IMO trading up for McClain is a mistake. Its not that I don't like him or think that he is a good player. Its more that the job he would take, SILB, which would require him to basically fist fight with lineman all day. Seems like that would be a waste of talent and a waste of the required ammo it would take to move up to where we could get him. If he were somehow available at 22 then I'm all in. If we were to move to ten I would prefer Dunlap or Haden, they both fill a greater need.
  16. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    trade wilfork to KC or denver....and then:

    - cut thomas and springs, sanders
    - sign pickett, peppers, and sean jones
    - draft mcclain, oldrick, hughes or graham, jon asemoah, eric norwood
  17. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Rookie

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    Madness, just stop the madness.

    While I am impressed with your creativety for the 'out of the box' thinking. It is just the wrong year to do this (next year though....)

    1) Deep draft: favors keeping multiple high round (1st - 3rd) picks.

    2) Especially due to the # of starting player FA's we have (likely holes to fill). Holes:
    Defense
    DE: Green likely gone - depth thin after Wright becomes starter by default
    NT: Wilfork might be franchaised then traded. Can Brace make the 2nd year leap?
    LB: TBC - also FA. Although I hope to think he will re-sign but still is possible hole.
    A Thomas - might be released.
    Burgess - is a FA. Even if we only 'lose' 2 of those 3. That is alot of game day snaps that need to be filled (and not by Woods, Crable, etc.!)
    CB: Bodin is FA. Thats another defensive starter with big shoes to fill if he takes the money and runs.

    Offense
    WR: #3 WR, let alone #4 and #5 spots don't exactly inpspire alot of confidence. Slot - is also losing opening day production with Welker likely on PUP. (Yes, Edelman will fill spot but his production can't match Welkers so that lack of 110+ catches has got to come from somewhere else). Definately some more quality needed here. ie. big hole(s) to fill
    TE: Watson is FA and likey gone. Another starter needing replacement via either FA or draft.
    OG: Will Neal return ? Could be a hole there.

    3) So are definately lots of starting player holes to fill NOT EVEN listing all the upgrades that should happen if we are seriously going to be Elite class again especially in the skill player position. Plus have got to factor into the total #'s of needed players equation - injuries.

    So let me get this straight. Blow all those 2nd rounders (some of which might get borderline 1st round talent in a deep draft) to get 1 player at spot #10? How many positions can this one player play simualtaneously? And can he also play both offense and defense? :cool:

    P.S. yes i am aware of the thing called FA - but BB's schemes can take a year or more to get the hang of. Keep the picks and then do Jets approach in 2011 with our first rounder and with Oaklands high first to target 2 elite first round players to hopefully then 'put us over the top'. Because how Pats played this year - they need more than 2 players to put them over the top this coming year. Lots of holes to fill - hopefully with some of those (3) second rounders. Plug them in and let them get game experience for a year (hopefully win AFC East ) and then go 'ALL IN ' next years' draft 2011. ;)
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  18. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    McClain + BGraham

    ......or......

    Odrick + Hardy + Kyle Wilson + McCluster (or plug in your 4 favorites)

    So you could draft an ILB not overly strong in coverage (effectively boxing out McKenzie before he plays a down) and an undersized DE who has only played effectively with his hand on the ground (not what the Pats will ask him to do).

    Or you could draft a Seymour replacement, a true elephant LB, a playmaking CB to replace/supplement Bodden and a new weapon for Brady that can line up in the backfield or split out wide.

    Obviously I'm not a fan of the approach you are suggesting. Maybe if you got Derrick Morgan or Joe Haden in the tradeup, but not for McClain.
  19. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  20. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Sorry to steal the prize out of your Cracker Jacks. McClain is great but just doesn't seem like a maximal use of the assets in question. Even worse, McClain and Graham don't seem to complement each other very well. Not sure I want to see Graham on the field against Tennessee or McClain against Indy. If you are going to use up all your draft capital, shouldn't you get players that hardly ever come off the field?
  21. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    More dumbness from "The Riddler".

    The #10 pick isn't worth 3 potential starters.
  22. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    lol, There isnt another Linebacker in this draft that I would rather see against Indy. I dont really get where your going with the complemnting each other thing as one is an outside linebacker and the other is an ILB, were not talking welker and Moss here. Its more about how McClain complements Mayo than an OLB. If you dont think McClain is staying on the field on third down than you probably didnt watch much college football this year. I personally wouldnt take Graham with that pick but maybe a Dan Williams or a Jared Odrick, maybe even a slipping offensive player like CJ Spiller.
  23. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    Don't forget we probably get a 1st for Wilfork.

    Spikes from Florida could probably play SILB as well as McClain.

    Also, we may need to draft a replacement for Mayo, whose knee was pretty damaged by having to rush back early (for our great playoff run). Travesty if he's done because of that knee.
  24. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    You really want McClain anywhere near Clark or Addai in a pass pattern? To get an extra safety on the field, either McClain or Mayo would need to shift outside or head to the sidelines. McClain would shine next to Mayo against Baltimore or Tennessee, but the other teams between the Pats and the Super Bowl are 3-wide spread offenses. McClain and Graham are strong against entirely different types of teams. I wouldn't think they could be successful on the field at the same time.
  25. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    McClain stayed on the field on third down at Bama in a 3-4 so I dont think he would be coming off as often as you think. Do you know how many times Guyton was on the field on third down? McClain can blitz effectively and he can cover very well. Another thing to note is that usually one of those 3-4 DE's comes off the field and one of the OLB puts their hand in the dirt. Burgess did it quite often last year. Just take a look at this and look how many times the ILB's were on the field. Patriots defensive snap count - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    Two games one against the Jets one against the Saints. Guyton stayed on the field the whole time against the saints and came off 6 times against the Colts. James Sanders and Pat Chung combined for 16 out of 50 appearances. Corners were rotated frequently but Bodden and Butler took the bulk of the snaps.
  26. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    actually, you're wrong.......when another DB comes on, its because the NT comes off in passing downs and then the OLB's have the option to put a hand down
  27. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    actually, I would be wrong if I was talking about a standard 2-4-5 nickel. I'm not. I'm referring to either the 3-3-5 "big nickel" or a 2-3-6 dime. In either case you have the rush linebackers and a single ILB. So either McClain shifts outside or Mayo comes off the field. I don't like either of those options.
  28. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think McClain could probably play rush linebacker in that situation, but your point is valid - it wouldn't be playing to his strengths.
  29. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  30. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    I hear what you are saying but that isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Of course McClain didn't come off the field for Alabama. He was the leader of the defense. Mayo fills that role for the Pats.

    Also, outside of Arkansas the pass offense in the SEC was horrific. Don't think you would find another SEC team in the top 40 passing offenses. The Pats have to go through the Colts, Chargers and Steelers to get to the promised land.

    Guyton is a cover guy. Why would you take your WILB off the field on 3rd down but leave your SILB on?

    Agree on the blitzing but we just disagree on his coverage ability. Maybe he can show me something later this month.

    Typo with the Colts but I get it that you meant the Saints. The Jets are the worse example of a "passing" team you could use. The Saints is a valid one, but that game was so messed up on defense I can't even begin to draw any conclusions.

    The Colts game was interesting to me. Nickel the whole game with Chung (inexperienced at that point) getting a good number of snaps. I don't know how many snaps Guyton got but he had to have come off the field occasionally. And he is a cover guy.

    I guess the disconnect between us is essentially around McClain's cover skills. If he is an every-down guy, then Guyton loses snaps and/or shifts outside. The "Big Nickel" becomes kind of irrelevant so McGowan is less of a factor.

    Maybe that is the real problem I have with drafting McClain. Plug him in and you upgrade/remove players who have shown they can be productive and block a player (McKenzie) that hasn't had a chance yet. If SILB was a singular weakness, that isn't a big deal. But upgrading an area that is reasonably under control when you could use those assets to upgrade multiple, real holes isn't the way I would go.
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