Day 3 Observations from Reiss

[RobertWeathers]

The Abomination wrecks some more havoc:



Patriots training camp notes: Day 4

Any 20-something 270lb-something man who knocks down a guy in his late 50s is pure evil.

Hightower is....."The Abomination".

 

[JackBauer]

From Bedard:

Don’t look now, but Brace is turning some heads. He’s showing off power and surprising quickness. Amazing what actually practicing can do. This is the first of his three camps where Brace is on the field in the first week.

Well, looks like it's time to hop aboard the Ron Brace 2012 bandwagon.

 

[mayoclinic]

Any 20-something 270lb-something man who knocks down a guy in his late 50s is pure evil.

Hightower is....."The Abomination".

I guess he was pissed because Gronk wasn't there to push around, and started throwing things.

 

[mayoclinic]

From Bedard:

Well, looks like it's time to hop aboard the Ron Brace 2012 bandwagon.

It would be nice for Brace to step up, and there have been a few hopeful reports. But NE Patriots' Draft had this to say:

Everyone is still waiting to see when Ron Brace will make his presence known along the defensive line. Based on what I have seen up to this point we could be waiting a long time. Brace is currently running with the 3rd team defense and still has the same bad habits we saw early in his career. Brace stands up straight when firing off the ball and gets blocked too easily. The only time he see’s time with the first team is in goalline situations.

Patriots Training Camp: 15 Things that Stood out on Sunday | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

 

[RobertWeathers]

It would be nice for Brace to step up, and there have been a few hopeful reports. But NE Patriots' Draft had this to say:

Everyone is still waiting to see when Ron Brace will make his presence known along the defensive line. Based on what I have seen up to this point we could be waiting a long time. Brace is currently running with the 3rd team defense and still has the same bad habits we saw early in his career. Brace stands up straight when firing off the ball and gets blocked too easily. The only time he see’s time with the first team is in goalline situations.

This stuff drives me nuts. Some reporters say he looks like hes doing well and some not so well...Arrgghh.

 

[Fencer]

Do I understand correctly that Hightower was involved in knocking down two different coaches, both former NFL players?

(Pepper Johnson and Ivan Fears)

 

[supafly]

the numbers tell us that he is on the bubble.


Sorry folks. I like JE but with the depth they have at WR and DB, hes in for a fight to save his job.

I agree with everything outside of Edelman is not on the bubble (theoretically anyway).


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I certainly respect both of your opinions, but I think that you may be increasing your personal definition of "on the bubble" to something more than it should be.

Ron Brace may be on the bubble, Jermaine Cunningham, Will Allen, Bobby Carpenter, some of the FB's, etc...but I don't believe that Julian Edelman is anywhere "on the bubble" to make the roster, and I also don't believe that too many in the NEP organization think that either. This is a misconception by some of the fans due to the increased competition for the WR spots.

I think if anything, guys like Branch and Stallworth may be fighting for a roster spot due to age, similiar skillset, and lack of versatility. Someone like Edelman who is young, cheap, versatile in his abilities to do multiple things in all 3 phases of the game (no, I don't believe that he'll be a DB this year, but knowledge and ability to do it in a pinch certainly help his cause), and the perceived potential to take over Wes Welker's role next year all point in his favor. In other words, there's a very decent shot that he will be a part of the future here, whereas guys like Stallworth/Branch would be here for one last year.

Keeping a guy like Stallworth/Branch over someone like Edelman is completely ridiculous on many levels, one of the main reasons due to the fact that you know that you'd be cutting someone young, cheap, and with a lot of upside to replace them with a one-year rental of someone extremely limited...but I don't think it even comes close to getting that far. Stallworth/Branch may be in competition with each other, but guys like Slater and Edelman are some of the core pieces of this team, outside of the obvious stars.

I somehow think that core ST players such as Slater and Edelman aren't even close to being on the bubble, mainly due to their positions already being locked up.

Either way, it's been a good debate, and I look forward to seeing the outcome. I just think that you may be looking at it in a very narrowed lens, without seeing the bigger picture. It isn't just about "who's better" as a WR, there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[ausbacker]

I guess he was pissed because Gronk wasn't there to push around, and started throwing things.

If Hightower can become the defense's Gronk I may cry.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

It would be nice if one of the 2nd round bubble players (Cunningham, Brace) stepped up and worked their way into the rotation.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

What's up with Pryor?.....injured?

Haven't heard anything about his chances to make the team

 

[patchick]

I think if anything, guys like Branch and Stallworth may be fighting for a roster spot due to age, similiar skillset, and lack of versatility. Someone like Edelman who is young, cheap, versatile in his abilities to do multiple things in all 3 phases of the game (no, I don't believe that he'll be a DB this year, but knowledge and ability to do it in a pinch certainly help his cause), and the perceived potential to take over Wes Welker's role next year all point in his favor. In other words, there's a very decent shot that he will be a part of the future here, whereas guys like Stallworth/Branch would be here for one last year.

Keeping a guy like Stallworth/Branch over someone like Edelman is completely ridiculous on many levels, one of the main reasons due to the fact that you know that you'd be cutting someone young, cheap, and with a lot of upside to replace them with a one-year rental of someone extremely limited...but I don't think it even comes close to getting that far. Stallworth/Branch may be in competition with each other, but guys like Slater and Edelman are some of the core pieces of this team, outside of the obvious stars.

Not arguing against Edelman necessarily, but the fact that he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season tends to undercut this line of thinking.

 

[Sciz]

What's up with Pryor?.....injured?

Haven't heard anything about his chances to make the team

Still recovering from surgery on his shoulder that ended his season last year. Any lost time is a bad thing. He was already presumably behind Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, and Fanene, and now Francis and Brace are flashing in training camp.

 

[supafly]

Not arguing against Edelman necessarily, but the fact that he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season tends to undercut this line of thinking.

Yes, patchick, I am well aware, but is there any reason whatsoever to believe that the team wouldn't want him back?

I was under the assumption (Captain stone would say ass--umption) that we could surely sign him at a very reasonable cost. I couldn't imagine why not?

I mean, how much do you think he'd demand? It wouldn't even be close to anything costly.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Not arguing against Edelman necessarily, but the fact that he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season tends to undercut this line of thinking.

Do you expect him to be an expensive re-sign?

 

[supafly]

Do you expect him to be an expensive re-sign?

I would expect a 7th round pick who has made peanuts in terms of NFL salaries (and some say is 'on the bubble' of not even making the team) to be relatively cheap, assuming that they wish to re-sign him of course.

He probably won't get too many opportunities as long as Welker is healthy, but one possible scenario is that he steps into the slot role next year, except a lot cheaper and younger. One would have to think that Belichick has some kind of plan in place, since they seem to be okay with allowing Welker to walk over a 2-3 year shorter-term deal.

While he hasn't set the world on fire or anything close to it as a WR, we still cannot forget that he did exceptionally well in his limited opportunities in the slot when Welker went down. I think it's somewhat unfair to say that he can't put up some of the production that Welker did here. He is quick and shifty too, and likely capable of catching 5-10 yd routes off the line. I don't think any of us really want to see him lining up outside again any time soon though.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I certainly respect both of your opinions, but I think that you may be increasing your personal definition of "on the bubble" to something more than it should be.

Ron Brace may be on the bubble, Jermaine Cunningham, Will Allen, Bobby Carpenter, some of the FB's, etc...but I don't believe that Julian Edelman is anywhere "on the bubble" to make the roster, and I also don't believe that too many in the NEP organization think that either. This is a misconception by some of the fans due to the increased competition for the WR spots..

On the bubble means that there is a chance of the player being cut.

I think if anything, guys like Branch and Stallworth may be fighting for a roster spot due to age, similiar skillset, and lack of versatility. Someone like Edelman who is young, cheap, versatile in his abilities to do multiple things in all 3 phases of the game (no, I don't believe that he'll be a DB this year, but knowledge and ability to do it in a pinch certainly help his cause), and the perceived potential to take over Wes Welker's role next year all point in his favor. In other words, there's a very decent shot that he will be a part of the future here, whereas guys like Stallworth/Branch would be here for one last year...

Who perceives that Edelman has this potential? You? Why hasn't he excelled at other WR positions? You are dellusional if you think Edelman will jump into WWs position and catch 100 balls for 1200 yards. He doesn't have his skill or talent.

How do you know that they won't keep Stallworth next year?

Keeping a guy like Stallworth/Branch over someone like Edelman is completely ridiculous on many levels, one of the main reasons due to the fact that you know that you'd be cutting someone young, cheap, and with a lot of upside to replace them with a one-year rental of someone extremely limited...but I don't think it even comes close to getting that far. Stallworth/Branch may be in competition with each other, but guys like Slater and Edelman are some of the core pieces of this team, outside of the obvious stars....

Edelman is not a proven, consistient NFL WR. The others are and have been productive in this offense. Especially Branch.

I somehow think that core ST players such as Slater and Edelman aren't even close to being on the bubble, mainly due to their positions already being locked up.....

Seeing that he is in the last year of his deal and has not been re-upped like Slater, Edelman is far from being a core special teamer. Slater with his deal is.

Either way, it's been a good debate, and I look forward to seeing the outcome. I just think that you may be looking at it in a very narrowed lens, without seeing the bigger picture. It isn't just about "who's better" as a WR, there's a lot more to it than that.

I think my prior posts do look at the big picture. Edelman is a medicore WR. Sub-standard DB and a decent return guy. With all the WRs and DBs that are better than him in camp, he needs to be the second comming of Devin Hester to make this team.

 

[PatsFan37]

Nice article on Edelman's offseason:.

Wide receiver Julian Edelman has been exploding through the secondary during his opportunities in training camp during the last week, and his speed and quickness have looked to be improved...

Edelman ran routes four days a week in Los Angeles during the offseason, jumping on the field with a handful of NFL quarterbacks whom he didn’t want to name and blazing through his route tree, one after another after another.

That there's any debate at all indicates he's not a lock, mainly because that's a pretty strong word. But I'd be really surprised if they cut him. He has a lot of value on special teams, he can play DB, he has a much quickness and acceleration as anyone on the team, and he's very, very cheap. Think of how many positions he's backing up and what he's being paid.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nice article on Edelman's offseason:.



That there's any debate at all indicates he's not a lock, mainly because that's a pretty strong word. But I'd be really surprised if they cut him. He has a lot of value on special teams, he can play DB, he has a much quickness and acceleration as anyone on the team, and he's very, very cheap. Think of how many positions he's backing up and what he's being paid.

Thanks for sharing. I certainly do hope he makes the team. I like him and he absolutely has value. The question is how much value and is it enough to make the 2012 roster.

 

[WhiZa]

Nice article on Edelman's offseason:.



That there's any debate at all indicates he's not a lock, mainly because that's a pretty strong word. But I'd be really surprised if they cut him. He has a lot of value on special teams, he can play DB, he has a much quickness and acceleration as anyone on the team, and he's very, very cheap. Think of how many positions he's backing up and what he's being paid.

He is definitely an interesting case. He's the type of player who's production has dropped off, but he's gotten better each year imo. No way BB would cut a player who can contribute at all three phases. That's the equivalent of having 3 players in 1 which makes him 3 times more valuable.

 

[BradyManny]

Intrigued to see such positive reports on Edelman as a receiver. He's done very little in that regard on the field since '09. I can't speak for Brady, but my trust in him as a wideout had gotten very low. I think Brady's #s on targets to Edelman were the worst of any wideout on the team last year basically.