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David Givens

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by lutontown_fc, Dec 19, 2005.

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  1. lutontown_fc

    lutontown_fc On the Game Day Roster

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    I think this guy really brings a deep threat to the Patriots offense that we need to open up the shorter stuff underneath.

    His 6 catches for 137 yds on Saturday were huge in terms of clutch play.

    I believe he will become a restricted free agent at the end of this season, or maybe its unrestricted.

    I cannot think of many WR's I would rather have for the sort of wages we are paying him - what sort of deal will he be offered?

    I hope the CBA will get sorted out, but its not looking to healthy at this time - will this have an impact on our free agent signings next year?

    NM
     
  2. Chris

    Chris On the Game Day Roster

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    He's a UFA after the season.. I think we really need to re-sign him but at an affordable contract.. I have a weird feeling he might look for a team where he will get more balls his way.. But i dunno we'll see..
     
  3. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Man I hope not, but you never know. He wouldn't be the first to decide he's got enough rings and want a pay day. And the dude could get it, he's just clutch. Hope he stays, we're definately a better team when he's playing.
     
  4. BelizePats

    BelizePats Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think it's pivotal that we sign Givens long term. He creates space for Branch and is a class act on and off the field. This guy is a Patrot.
    Both Willie and Rosie are gonna have to do redo's and this is where that moeny should go, CBA or not!
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dont know that I'd call Givens a deep threat, but he is excellent in the intermediate zones (12-18 yards) and gets good run after catch on those routes.

    I just have a feeling when he hits the open market, he is going to get 'Product of the System" treatment.
    Many teams put too much weight on measurables, especially at the WR postion, and the truth is by measurables there are 100 better WRs in the NFL than Givens, maybe more.
    Since we don't weigh measuarables so heavily, he may get the best offer he can get from us.

    Remmber he was a RFA this year, and received no interest. Anyone considering him a big contract guy would have pursued him then too, unless they see more in him a year later. I doubt that because he looks exactly the same to me as last year.
     
  6. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #15 Jersey

    I agree with all of that, except you have to take his experience into acoount. He is a tested player who has playoff and SB games in his backround.

    There aren't many WR's with his pedigree out there. There ARE quite a few with great "Potential" out there, but if I was a smart GM, I sign a guy with experience and attitude.

    The Pat's should wrap him up and not let him get away. If Givens was smart he'd realize he'll never have it better than he's had it NE.

    God, I hope we keep him.
     
  7. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    You might be right, but then David Patten hits a big payday and we're left to rely on the likes of David Terrell, and then suddenly the world changes. Pay him, I say.
     
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Im not saying dont sign him.
    Im saying at his position he may not be a sought after FA.

    Why did Patten get that contract? Speed. He was the fastest guy on the Patriots.

    Invariably teams are looking for excellent speed, or size, or quickness in a WR. They want "The athlete". Givens wont stand up that yardstick very well. Of all the positions on the field, raw skills are valued the highest at WR.
     
  9. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Teams could have considered Givens a big contract guy but were not willing to give up a 1st round pick for him. Teams can now sign Givens without giving up a pick for him.
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    True. They also could have tried to make an offer and negotiated a trade for a lower pick, which does happen.

    I'm just saying that what Givens brings to the position is atypical to what teams normally pay for at the position.

    Make no mistake, I want him here, I'm just contemplating his market value, and I think his strengths and weaknesses would cause him to be undervalued on the market.

    I think WR is somewhat unique in that my feeling is that history has dictated that 'atheltic skills' determine what teams will pay for at the position.

    If this version of FA were in place then, it would have taken Steve Largent a lot longer to earn as much as a 'real fast' WR. He would have eventually, but he would have had to prove himself for much longer than the 'potential gamebreaker'.

    Could be wrong, but thats my read on the makret.
     
  11. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I was just going to say that look at what david patten got. not saying that he wasnt/isnt a good player, but he got much more than what the pats were willing to or should have paid. i hope that they can resign givens to something reasonable, but our two priorities should be seymour and adam v. think givens should be #3 on the list.
     
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Part of my point was that Patten, with blazing speed is more attractive on the FA market. Clearly Givens is a better player, and we will try harder to keep him, but the makret for WRs tends to say, athleticism earns more than production.
     
  13. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    you really think that patten was/is a more attractive free agent than givens will be. Givens has big time age advantage, better possesion reciever and I would say more potential than patten especially at this point in both of their careers
     
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Im saying that the way teams have gone after WRs, physical attributes, great speed, tremendous size, take more priority than prodcution, at least moreso than other positions.

    I think teams will look at Givens as a 'system receiver' but one that brings no special phyiscal skills.

    Pattens attraction was that he has excellent speed. Teams look at that and envision how that speed will open up their offense.
    "Possession receivers" are a dime a dozen in GMs eyes.

    Im not saying they are right. Im saying that is what has been happening.
     
  15. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I really hope you are right (so that we can resign him for a cost effective price), but I personally think (of course I am a pats fan and watch them more than any other team) that givens has great physical skills (he was compared to hines ward by a tampa bay player after the game which I think is a very good analysis of what givens will become in the league).
     
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree Givens is good. He just doesnt have the blazing speed or enormous size that leads to a big FA deal for a WR.

    Branch would get a much bigger contract as a FA, but arguably they are equally productive for us.
    Why? Because other teams see a quality in Branch (in his case great quickness) that separates him from other WRs.
    Givens has all the qualities, but doesnt excel at any particular ones.

    My point being that teams typically are looking for the 'dominant' 'gamebreaker' and eschew solid productive 'possession' guys.
     
  17. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's probably one of the top 5 #2's in the game. Whether we keep him or not ,IMO, is whether or not BB/Pioli thinks Watson is going to make it. Any # of teams will be willing to pay him. Carolina, Oakland, Da Bears...
     
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sey got a increase for 2006 when he held out this summer, we shouldn't need to address him this off-season. AV should be fairly easy to re-sign now that the market has been set with the different kickers signed this year.

    UFAs off the top of my head: Givens, Ashworth, Neal, Fauria, Troy Brown, Chad Scott, Hawkins....there's some key talent to consider here. Givens seems to be the guy who opens up the passing game for Deion and Troy, this makes him the 1st consideration with the way he makes the passing game better.
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Andy - He received "no interest" because it would have cost another team a 1st round pick to sign him. Lets make sure we have things in perspective.

    However, lets also look at the fact that there were only 5 1st round wide-receivers taken (Edwards, Williamson, Williams, Clayton, White). I also believe that people didn't want to give the defending champs MORE ammunition to restock their coffers. Imagine what BB would have done with another 1st round pick? Someone like Shawn Merriman or Demarcus Ware? Having either of them would have allowed BB to move Vrabel inside right from the beginning.

    Anyways, with as thin as the free agency wide receivers is going to be, Givens is going to draw a LOT of interest. And I fully expect him to receive a contract similar to TJ Houshmandzedah's contract. A 5 year, 13 million dollar deal.
     
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One of the reasons that AV hasn't been resigned is that he has no agent. His current Agent is under a 1 year suspension that runs through Mid August of 2006. AV hasn't done much about getting another agent.
     
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