David Givens:What should be offered?

[Miguel]

1) Who ever said Patten was a 'hot commodity on the FA market'?

No one. No one ever said that you did. On December 19th you posted "Part of my point was that Patten, with blazing speed is more attractive on the FA market. Clearly Givens is a better player, and we will try harder to keep him, but the makret for WRs tends to say, athleticism earns more than production."
I think that it is reasonable to infer from your posts in that thread
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...showthread.php?p=861&highlight=patten#post861 that you think that a player like Patten who has better measurables than Givens would attract more interest in free agency.

2) Which WRs with better 'measurables' got smaller contracts?
In 2004 how many WRs received signing bonusses? 8 may be a VERY high percentage of the ones who signed new contracts.

You can look at
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=4&order=Salary+desc to find the answers to your questions.

20 had a higher cap number than 3mill.......And my proposal has Givens being above that in 2008. How many WRs do you think will be above 3mil cap #s by 2008?

Rather than me doing all of the work, I would like to hear your answer to your question- "How many WRs do you think will be above 3mil cap #s by 2008?

How many in 2004 had AVERAGE CAP HITS of over 3mill?

No clue. I'm willing to bet $$$ that you do not know the answer, either. This is what I do know. A deal averaging $3 million a year are usually given to well-regarded wide receivers.

How many had cap numbers as lows as the 1.5mill or so I have Givens getting in 2006?

Immaterial. Free agency deals are not judged by the 1st year cap number. Givens' agent is not going to judge how well he served his client by just looking at the 1st year cap number. He is going to look at the guaranteed money, the likelihood of Givens of seeing all of the money in the contract, the amount of money Givens receives in the 1st 3 years of the contract.

I usually respect your facts, arguments, points, even though we may disagree, but this was severely a case of twisting the facts to support your argument.

Oh, please.
On one hand, you say that Givens is not the type of player who will attract interest in free agency. On the other hand, your offer is in line with what the top wide receivers get.

In 2001 there were 9 wideouts with a cap number of at least 3 million.
In 2002 there were 20 wideouts with a cap number of at least 3 million.
In 2003 there were 15 wideouts with a cap number of at least 3 million.
In 2004 there were 22 wideouts with a cap number of at least 3 million.

This spring we will find out how many wideouts had a cap number of at least 3 million in 2005. I suspect that number will be in the 24 to 27 range.

We can know already that the average starting wideout in 2005 had a cap number of $2.2 million.

 

[Miguel]

Jackson, Darrell

WR (#82)

Salary History

2004 1000000.00
2005 1500000.00
2006 2500000.00
2007 3250000.00
2008 4000000.00
2009 4750000.00

Don't know the bonus.

6 years 20 mil + bonus.

Darrell Jackson received a $8 million signing bonus
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?player=1143