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David Givens:What should be offered?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Jan 18, 2006.

  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    He has been a valuable member of this team and I sure would like him to stay.

    However, we can't be overpaying him. I think a 3 year deal @ 6mil. Bonuses and salary is not important to me as long as his cap # is 2mil or less.

    Does anyone think we can keep him for that? What do you think his $ value will be to other teams?
  2. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am not a cap guru but if we can keep him at a cap friendly price I am all for it. But I honestly think he will get #1 money because some desperate team will see him as a promising up and coming reciever. Patten got a 5 year 13 million deal with a 3.5 million signing bonus. If Patten can get that just imagine what a desperate team will pay a guy with 2 rings and a proven track record of coming up clutch with a big catch in big games.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  3. coltshater

    coltshater Rookie

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    Whatever offer the Patriots do make, they should be up front and make the highest offer that they would be happy with from the start. I am not saying that they overpay Givens, but it might go a long way in showing how much they appreciate what he has done here. There aren't many solid free agent receivers available this year, and you know what you have with Givens.
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    A fair deal, a chance to beat John Stallworth's record for most consecutive playoff games with a TD reception, and the knowledge that Tom Brady will continue to make him look good.
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    He'll be offered what the team thinks he's worth

    Another team will likely offer more

    I'd put my money on Givens taking the higher offer - and the Pats will not be the higher offer
  6. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    For a long time now, the general consensus seems to be that Givens will leave. I think we should find a way to keep him. I don't relish the thought of a new receiver coming in and needing two seasons to really get on the same page with Brady.
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    David Givens should be insulted with such an offer. The average starting wide receiver (67 in total) had a cap number of $2.2 million in 2005. I believe that Givens is better than the average starting wide receiver (how many #2 wide receivers are better, how many #1 wide receivers is Givens better than??)

    IMO, Givens is going to get an offer from someone that averages $4 million an year.

    Edited to correct the cap number from $2.9 million to $2.2 million.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  8. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    look at ze numbers

    according to miguel and to his salary links, i see this:
    givens is the patriots' second-highest paid receiver ($1.4m) watson is #1, by a small amount. troy brown plays for the veteran minimum, graham plays for
    about $1m per yea. deion branch (twig) has a cap number of $760K, still on his rookie contract. givens has repeatedly siad he wants "hines ward money", which is about $2.5 m. patriots have not offered that.
    if they were ok with that figure, they'd have wrapped him up by now. so sadly, i believe he's gone. seems like $2m would have been easy to do.
  9. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is no doubt in my mind that he will get an offer well beyond the 2Mil. My original questions was: What should the Patiots offer him? Then I gave my opinion of 2mil. It's fine to tell me my number will insult him. But what number, in your and other opinions,will not insult him and can we live with it cap wise.

    So, once again, what should the Patriot offer him as a fair offer to him and to keep the cap situation in line by not overpaying?

    I think it's important for Patriots fans to know that we did offer him a fair salary. Then, if another team wants to overpay him, we will have nothing to complain about.
  10. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    IMO, there is no such number because whatever we offer Givens we would have to offer more to Branch. It would be insulting to Givens to offer
    1.) a lesser deal than offered to Derrick Mason
    2.) a deal while also hoping that he turns it down. By this, I mean I do not think that the Patriots will offer a deal averaging $3.5 million a year (a non-insulting offer) because they would not want him to accept it as that would establish the floor for any Branch negotiations.
    3.) a deal that is not in line with what Darrell Jackson got in 2004
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  11. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    How are you guys doing cap wise? I was reading somewhere that there may be some decisions to be made as far as who to bring back, let go, or redo their contracts. Don't Starks and McGinest have bigger numbers? Is this Syemour's contract year or is he still signed through 2006?
  12. oldrover

    oldrover Rookie

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    Anybody who thinks David Givens isn't all about the money should click here.
  13. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    OK but not great.
    The same thing can be said for every team in the NFL. Teams in great cap shape make the same decisions as do teams in bad cap shape.
    [/quote]
    Yes. But it is highly probable that neither one of them will be playing in September with their current cap number.
    Seymour is signed through the 2006 season
  14. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Good for him. The friggin' memorabalia collectors make money off his name why shouldn't he.
  15. coltshater

    coltshater Rookie

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    Troy Brown also has a web site that sells his memorabilia. Givens has been paid dog dung since he was drafted. He has every right to make additional money on the side.
  16. shatch62

    shatch62 Rookie

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    Compare him to a player signed last year

    In 2004, the 6-1 TJ Houshmandzadeh had 73 catches for 978 yards and four touchdowns in 2004, his fourth in the league. After the season he signed a 4 year, $13 million dollar - $3.25 per year -deal. He followed up this year with 78 catches for 956 yards and seven TDs

    Givens is 6-0 and he had 59 catches for 738 yards and two touchdowns. He missed 3 games with injury so I am sure his agent will “project†Givens numbers over a full season to be 72 catches for 900 yards and three touchdowns. This would put him in the “range†of Houchmandzadeh. As such I feel Givens will be looking for 4 - $13 million AT LEAST. You know the agent will talk about all the TD receptions in the play-offs proving Givens is a “clutch†player.
  17. mikey

    mikey Rookie

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    Before Givens decide to go elsewhere, he has to think about the following:

    1. It was the Patriots who drafted him in the seventh round and who gave him the opportunity not only to play in the league, but also to start and to make a name for himself.

    2. He has to look at what happened to David Patten after he left the team. Patten not only was treated like dirt at Washington, he completely disappeared from the face of the earth. Patten was actually healthy to play in the playoff, but the Redskins decided not to play him.

    3. For a little less money, Givens will continue to start with one the most dominant teams in the league and have the opportunity to play in the playoff and win a few more Lombardis. He will continue to be treated with respect by fans and the organizations. He will continue to have Tom Brady throw him touchdowns.

    A lot of factors go into the decision making process about jobs. Money is certainly one of the most important factors. But there are other compelling reasons as well, such as comfort level and relationship with teammates, coaches, and owners.

    Givens must remember this fact: without the Patriots, he may not even be playing in the league today.

    .
  18. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    I think you shouldn't put too much stock in #1. Most players may be thankful that they were drafted, but nearly all of them feel that they could make a name for themselves regardless of who drafted them when. As far as point #2 goes, I think ever player in the league is so confident in their abilities, that regardless of what happens to anyone else, they can perform. Point #3 is the wildcard. I think that is a fifty/fifty shot nowadays. It depends on the player's personality and the dollars that are being thrown their way. Especially since Given has won the Super Bowl, money may look a the more attractive.
  19. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    patriots are ok, as usual

    these guys don't let themselves get into big-time cap trouble. funny thing is, for the past 5 years, patriots have spent more on total operations, including player salaries, than anyone else.
    starks has a good-sized number. mcginest does not.
  20. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    I was curious, so I went and found that Starks is around $5.1 million and McGinest counts around $8.3 milion. Just FYI.

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