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David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    and this is why it's important, and remains important... 'the Wilson imbroglio was something of a proxy war for the debate over the war itself'

    Plamegate Finale: We Were Right; They Were Wrong

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=245279

    Four and a half years ago, after reading the Robert Novak column that outed Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA operative specializing in counter-proliferation work, I wrote an article in this space noting that this particular leak from Bush administration officials might have been a violation of a federal law prohibiting government officials from disclosing information about clandestine intelligence officers and (perhaps worse) might have harmed national security by exposing anti-WMD operations. That piece was the first to identify the leak as a possible White House crime and the first to characterize the leak as evidence that within the Bush administration political expedience trumped national security.

    The column drew about 100,000 visitors to this website in a day or so. And--fairly or not--it's been cited by some as the event that triggered the Plame hullabaloo. I doubt that the column prompted the investigation eventually conducted by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, for I assume that had my column not appeared the CIA still would have asked the Justice Department to investigate the leak as a possible crime. But now that Fitzgerald's investigation is long done, the Scooter Libby spin-off is over (thanks to George W. Bush's total commutation of Libby's sentence), and Valerie Wilson has finally published her account, it seems a good time to say, I was right. And to add, where's the apology?

    From the start, neocons and conservative backers of the war dismissed the Plame leak and subsequent scandal as a big nothing. Some even claimed that somehow former Ambassador Joseph Wilson and I had cooked up the episode to ensnare the White House. (Oh, to be so devilishly clever--and to be so competent.) But these attempts to belittle the affair (and to belittle Valerie Wilson) were based on nothing but baseless spin. As was--no coincidence--the Iraq war. In fact, the Wilson imbroglio was something of a proxy war for the debate over the war itself. In the summer of 2003, when the Plame affair broke, those in and out of government who had misled the nation into the war saw the need to spin their way out of the Wilson controversy in order to protect the false sales pitch they had used to win public support for the invasion of Iraq.

    In trying to spin their way out of the CIA leak mess, the neocon gang made much of the fact (again, first revealed by Isikoff and me) that Richard Armitage, who was the No. 2 at the State Department and a neocon-hating Iraq war skeptic, was the administration official who initially told Novak that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. But the Plamegate deniers often ignore the inconvenient truth that White House aide Karl Rove--during the White House campaign to undermine Joe Wilson--confirmed this classified information for Novak and also passed the same leak to Matt Cooper, then of Time. (It was only because Cooper's editors at the newsmagazine did not care about Wilson's wife that Novak published the leak first.) Libby and White House press secretary Ari Fleischer also shared information about Wilson's wife and her CIA connection with reporters. This was all part of the White House effort to tarnish Wilson by making it seem as if his trip to Niger had been nothing but a nepotistic junket. And as testimony and documents presented at the Libby trial showed, Vice President Cheney had been driving the pushback effort and had early on learned about Valerie Wilson's CIA employment and then conveyed that information to Libby. Yes, this was a case of putting politics (getting Joe Wilson) ahead of national security concerns (such as protecting the identity and operations of a CIA officer working the WMD beat).
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  2. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."


    And "getting Joe Wilson" was all bad?? It could be argued that Wilson's "there ain't no yellow-cake in Nigeria on Saddam's shopping list" would turn Saddam into another "wrongly maligned victim" who deserved sympathy.

    Saddam was a ruthless dictator who presided over a nation in a region of the world where ruthless dictators have dominated for as long as history is recorded. His chances for earthly rehabilitation were practically nil -- see Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD in Iran, for comparison; Syria, Lebanon, Eqypt, et. al., for further examples of varying levels of non-democratic despotism -- and he deserved to be removed. Joe Wilson might have turned into another Walter Duranty; instead of singing praises to "Papa Joe" Stalin, as Duranty did, Wilson may have sung praises for Saddam, had his "oh-so-covert"-wife-who-drove-to- Langley-every-day-for-everyone-to-see-and-record not been outed. Instead of "Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Mihn" kids would have been chanting "Saddam, Saddam, we give a dam"!!

    What was Wilson's motivation for making such a big deal out of the "yellow cake" thing, anyway? Saddam (like Iran) had "no designs" on acquiring nuclear weaponry??? That's not what Saddam said: he tried to get it, and would probably have kept trying had the U.S. not stopped him.

    So this was always about "politics": get Bush!!! Evil Bush!!! (Nice Saddam!!)


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  3. PressCoverage

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    super... "it could be argued" that the Patriots' past success is the result of video cameras, too... but no one would really buy it...

    so present precisely that case to the world body, and the American people, in 2002-03 then ... don't, instead, make up a litany list of runny shyt that's all proven false, and sends your approval rating from 80% to 24%, turning world sympathy for your country on its ear in the process...


    lol.... what?????????

    the CIA sent him there for answers... he gave them answers ... his government then immediately presented the exact opposite story to the American people... you don't invade a sovereign nation based on "likely", you prove undeniably of their malicious intent, and you let the weapons inspectors bare that out...

    incorrect, and ironic... it's about right vs. wrong, hegemony, imperialism, and corporate profit... the only people who cry "politics" in the merits of this disaster are the ones on the defensive... people like YOU...
     
  4. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."




    Again, you turn personal. You can't seem to get beyond that, can you.

    There is no "defense" here. It was what it was: an "outing" in technical terms only. The guilty party paid the price. Like Bill Belichick paying a half million for using cameras in an illegal manner. But people know Plame's "covert" status was no longer in effect. Her neighbors knew what she did. She drove her car to CIA HQ every day. No state secrets lost on her "outing". It was ALWAYS a political payback to go after Libby, and people know that.

    You need to read up on the whole Vietnam war thing. You need to read a LOT on how America and the West has been duped, entranced, and put to sleep by well-positioned propagandists who did the devil's work of demonizing those who wanted do to what was right (prevent communism from turning a nation/region into a nightmarish hell-hole), but got called bad names for their efforts.

    Kind of like people who talk about BB and the video cameras, "running up the score", and the like.

    Read on, grass-hopper, read on.



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  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    what was personal about my response to your obligatory off-topic post?... oh, that's right ... nothing...

    as for the rest of your tired trumpeting, sorry, but deflecting to paranoid delusion about Vietnam isn't winning you the argument...

    also, parrotting that "everyone knew she was CIA" has also been debunked, several times over... clearly, you didn't read the article... not that you ever do... i'll help you out:

    And Valerie Wilson was not known about Washington as a spy. Though Cliff May has made this argument, in the years since the Novak column appeared, no one in Washington has come forward to say, "Oh yes, I knew about her before Novak outed her." In fact, Valerie Wilson was a mid-level, career CIA officer--there must be hundreds, if not thousands--and such people are (to be frank) not usually on the radar screen of Washington insiders. They are not known regulars on the D.C. ****tail circuit, such as it is. Ask Sally Quinn.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  6. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."


    Today's exhibit #4829:

    " ... the only people who cry "politics" in the merits of this disaster are the ones on the defensive... [highlight] people like YOU... " [/highlight]

    But it's OK, PC. We understand your secret admiration.


    :rofl:

    Yeah, that's where everybody gets their national intelligence updates: Sally Quinn.

    Will that be on the rocks or straight up.


    //
     
  7. DarrylS

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    Do you have a credible source for this,several times I have called you on these so called "facts" and you have been unable to do so... if you cannot validate this claim could you refrain from this fiction. Until then it is just a right wing talking point.
     
  8. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."



    Sorry, I'm not going to go back and research who said what, when, etc. It's all there. On CNN, in the NYTimesWashPastABCNBCetal. Numerous sources, neighbors, friends, associates, etc., have said: "Everybody knew she worked for the CIA; it was no big secret." I'm talking in her last few years, from 2000 on. Yes, she started years ago in deep cover status, and yes, she did some clandestine ops for a time when very few knew of her NOC status. But from about 2000, when she started driving to Langley every day -- I mean, give it a rest! -- how can anybody claim "deep cover NOC" status when they drive to CIA HQ every day!!

    "Duh-h-h. Oh, I guess she just went to make the coffee? Or, maybe she was a house-cleaner doing the dusting there. Duh-h."


    Or do you still persist in the charade of her "NOC" status after 2000?


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  9. Patriot_in_NY

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    [​IMG]
    "Come on everybody, get out and push. I think we can get this puppy
    around the block one more time."

    .......​

    Really, its a nifty OP-ED piece................. BUT THAT IS ALL IT IS. It's certainly not news related. It's not even all that unpredictable, coming from a far-left Editor at The Nation, that is also a semi-regular contributor at that bastion of "reliable" information, The Huffington Post.

    Bottom line, if you want to continue to wade neck deep out into moonbat waters, or pitch in headlong with the "Wilson imbroglio was something of a proxy war" crowd. Have fun with that..

    But you really can't expect (and insult) everyone else for not jumping in with you on it. Most people I know see this story for just what it is....... political intercourse and part of the now tiring "gothca" politics schtick that most of us grew weary of ages ago.

    Like I said, have fun with it. I'll even by you the next round. Want it straight up, or on the rocks?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  10. Harry Boy

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    Valerie & Joe (James Bond)

    They might as well give it up Hollywood has forgotten all about them, their movie will never be made.

    Who Gives A Sh!t.

    :bricks:
     
  11. DarrylS

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    Not persisting on anything, asked if you had a credible source for your allegations and guess you do not.. another RW talking point.
     
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    it's all they ever do ... minimize, deflect, obfuscate, distort, distract... this thread is a perfect case study ...

    i suppose Corn and Isokoff's take on Plamegate is merely an opinion piece, right? yes, the entire book Hubris was all a big lie to "Get Bush" ... Get a clue...

    their heroes garnered support, through lies, of an illegal occupation of a nation that was never a threat, was drowning in U.N. sanctions, had no ability to hit or fund a hit on our shores... and Bush League Nation is sitting back laughing "Nah Nah" at the fact that they've yet to be held accountable.... then, one of their Klan IS finally held accountable, and he immediately receives a "Get out of Jail Free" card by Boy King... and they continue to laugh and taunt, like this is all so satisfying.... meanwhile, they rip the moderates and progressives for being "divisive", all while ignoring the Administration's partisaned agenda and incompetent appointments on a daily basis...
     
  13. Patriot_in_NY

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    When you say "credible source", what do you refer to, The article in question isn't a credible source, it's a left wing "op-ed" smear. Is that what you mean by credible.

    I'm really curious, not even trying to be funny.
     
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    considering the birth of the story was in fact completely embroiled in media sources, including Corn himself, i would say he's quite credible with intimate knowledge of the timeline of the case... you can parrot "Left Wing smear" as many times as you like... but you're not winning anyone over at all.... the facts of the case bare out that there was a coordinated and vindictive effort to silence dissent at the CIA.... it wasn't just Armitage... your heroes got caught lying to cover up their vindictiveness and breach of the intelligence identities protection act...
     
  15. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."



    Just because some of us don't have the time to go tracking down every little blurb, slug, and rant off the blogosphere doesn't mean it's not true. Anyway, you know it is true -- that Valeria Plame was as "covert" as J. Edgar Hoover was in 1950 -- and so do the American people, which is why nobody blinked when George pardoned Libby.



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  16. PressCoverage

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    i know it's 'true"??? what in God's name are you ever talking about?...

    anyhow, back in reality, a whole LOT of people "blinked" when Boy King pardoned Cheney's "Smithers".... it's just that people like you just were covering their ears and pretending...
     
  17. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."



    Oh, you mean like when Bill Clinton pardoned everybody under the sun except Charles Manson??!!

    Yeah, right. I remember that. Like it was this morning.

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  18. PressCoverage

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."


    you just can never stay on message, can you?.... always abandoning one debate in desperate retreat to another irrelevant position from which you can hide behind... it's really rather comical...
     
  19. Fogbuster

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."



    YOU'RE the one who constantly attempts to escape from the hell-holes you try to entrap others into!! :rofl:

    Listen carefully: the "message" is "wrong-doing in high places"; it's not just what YOU want to see as wrong-doing; it's what everybody ELSE wants to see as wrong-doing, too!! See!! You want "democracy", you got it!!



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  20. PressCoverage

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    re: David Corn: "We were right (about Plamegate), they were wrong."

    ummm... ok... but where have i said what Clinton did was positive? who are you arguing with? because it's not me... you seem to be arguing with yourself... again....

    anyhow, fine... i'll play along with your detour: ... in an alternate universe, let's pretend Clinton was impeached and bumped from office, to the joy of Con men everywhere... would you today, then, shutup about him and rightfully condemn Boy King for his crimes and call for his accountability also?

    just answer the question, please...
     

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