Dave Thomas

[TeamPats]

Definitely at making hamburgers. That mushroom bacon burger is to die for.

In the heat of this thread this classic comment went unnoticed. HILARIOUS.

Oh and Watson is second only to Vernon Davis in pure potential. Thomas might be a more natural TE with running routes and hands, but nobody can matchup to Watson when it comes to physical talents. Plus every year he is getting better with routes and catching. I don't have the stats but he is probably leading the league in TD receptions for a TE with 3.

 

[danny88]

I think Thomas is better than Watson.

Please explain why

 

[patchick]

Going by Watson's wonderlik he is one of the 2 or 3 most intelligent players in the NFL. Watson should probably run for senate some day. IMO Thomas has more football savvy and a better intuitive feel for the game, going by what I have seen from him in college and the snippets from last season. He is a natural football player, and IMO his ceiling is higher than Watson.

I'm not going to compare the two, but I think you've summed up what a lot of us like in Dave Thomas. He's just one of those guys who seems to speak football as a first language. In terms of physical gifts he's barely average, but in the little we've seen of him he seemed to be a very complete player -- solid blocking, sharp routes, incredibly soft hands.

If Thomas is back to 100%, this TE trio offers all sorts of possibilities. A 3-TE set where one of the TE's has top WR speed, another has OL size and blocking ability, and the third is a well-rounded player with h-back skills...very unpredictable.

 

[bunzoburns]

Thomas has much better hands than Watson, it's not even close. I still hold my breath everytime the ball is thrown Ben's way and when he is runnig with the ball, I am hoping the defender does not strip him. If the ball is not delivered in the numbers, forget about it.

Thomas does not have Watson's physical attributes but he has football speed. There will be a time in the season when Ben is sidelined and Thomas will impress.

 

[shmessy]

I like Thomas as much as anyone, but this made me laugh. The only way he's the go-to TE by year's end is if Watson is the go-to guy on IR.

Exactly. The thread premise is head-scratchingly ridiculous.

Thomas had a great game against Jax last year. There are alot of folks who are getting his statue built for Canton already. He may turn out to be a very good TE someday. The data is not yet in.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

In the heat of this thread this classic comment went unnoticed. HILARIOUS.

Oh and Watson is second only to Vernon Davis in pure potential. Thomas might be a more natural TE with running routes and hands, but nobody can matchup to Watson when it comes to physical talents. Plus every year he is getting better with routes and catching. I don't have the stats but he is probably leading the league in TD receptions for a TE with 3.

He is leading TE's for TD receptions, but his other stats (9 rec for 75 yds, 8.9 YPC) are pretty pedestrian. Granted, that's a function of the offense we're using, which is really why we shouldn't use them to support the argument one way or the other.

It's a great problem to have. I personally think Watson's biggest drawback was his hands (and his fumbles), both appear to be better this year, so time will tell on this one. Still he is a great TE. One thing about Thomas that I don't think has been mentioned is, he is fearless. I remember in a game last year, Brady tossed a blooper to Thomas that was a little high. Thomas had to expose himself to make the play. He did (knowing he was gonna get smoked), and he did get hammered, and still held on to the ball. NO WAY Watson would have held the ball on that play (IMO). It was one of those telling plays for me.

Not sure if anyone remembers that play or not.

 

[RIPatFan]

Going by Watson's wonderlik he is one of the 2 or 3 most intelligent players in the NFL. Watson should probably run for senate some day. IMO Thomas has more football savvy and a better intuitive feel for the game, going by what I have seen from him in college and the snippets from last season. He is a natural football player, and IMO his ceiling is higher than Watson.

Damn, I was just gonna say that! I've often wondered if Watson's high intellect might be actually hurting him, too much thinking not just reacting. I've gotten the feeling Brady will have the better hands

Last night a buddy of mine & I were actually feeling sorry for Buffalo, in spite of the fact my ex-mother in law lives there, UGH! Here we are arguing about great player "A" is better than great player "B". As I said to my wife, we were penalized a first round draft pick so now we only have one like everyone else!

 

[mgteich]

Both players are signed through 2009. Thomas may indeed have more upside because Watson has showed so much already and Thomas has shown little. Both should be on the team through the end of their contracts.

I see no reason to believe that Thomas will be better than Watson in the next three seasons, or even beyond. I see no way that Thomas will be able to have significant reps this year, absent injuries to Watson.

And just BTW, Watson is probably fast enough to run circles around Thomas.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think each of our TEs has his own specialty:

Watson: freakish athleticism (Thomas would not have been able to run down Champ Bailey in Denver)
Kyle Brady: freakish size and blocking ability (heck, Watson has said "he's huge")
Dave Thomas: freakish pass-catching/ball-hawking ability (how on earth did he come up with the fumble in the SD playoff game?)

That said, in the speed department, Thomas is probably at least as good as Daniel Graham was. (Remember when Brady threw to Thomas for 29 yards, and then to Graham for another 29? Thomas was almost literally right next to Graham on that second throw.)

Honestly, I want to see the Pats keep both of these guys for the rest of their hopefully long, hopefully very productive careers. :rocker:

 

[PonyExpress]

Exactly. The thread premise is head-scratchingly ridiculous.

Thomas had a great game against Jax last year. There are alot of folks who are getting his statue built for Canton already. He may turn out to be a very good TE someday. The data is not yet in.

Look at Thomas first game as a starter, vs. Houston the previous week. In his very first game in place of the injured Watson, as a rookie, he immediately became Brady's go to receiver and best option. This is very unusual for Brady, and speaks to the comfort level Thomas provides a QB. Thomas took the field as a rookie like a fish to water. He followed that up with a sterling effort against Jacksonville. This was no fluke. Thomas did the same thing in many big games for Vince Young at Texas, as those who enjoy college football witnessed time and again. IMO the reason the Pats let Graham go had more to do with the promise of Thomas than the cost of Graham.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Thomas had a great game against Jax last year. There are alot of folks who are getting his statue built for Canton already. He may turn out to be a very good TE someday. The data is not yet in.

What he said!

I think that there is a difference in athleticism. Watson (and Graham) are, unquestionably, great athletes. But neither seems to have the ability to adjust themselves quickly and easily to changing information (disruptive contact, balls arriving in unexpected places, etc.). This is what great receivers (Gates, Coates, Randy Moss) have in extraordinary degree. I think that it's part of what is meant when people speak of a player having "great hands" -- but, in fact, it involves the agility, co-ordination and balance of the whole body. On the evidence of that one game, there is hope that Thomas may have it. Further than that, it's hard to go.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Watson had a nice year last year and seems to have improved in all aspects as a TE.

Thomas is a 2nd year player who is coming off a broken foot who has a handful of catches to his credit.

As or right now, Watson far and away shows more talent and upside than Thomas.

Time will tell, but my money is on Watson.

I think Thomas is a fine prospect. We just don't know how good he is until he gets the type of playing time Watson does.

 

[PonyExpress]

Watson had a nice year last year and seems to have improved in all aspects as a TE.

Thomas is a 2nd year player who is coming off a broken foot who has a handful of catches to his credit.

As or right now, Watson far and away shows more talent and upside than Thomas.

Time will tell, but my money is on Watson.

I think Thomas is a fine prospect. We just don't know how good he is until he gets the type of playing time Watson does.

The original poster is just doing what NFL evaluators do all the time: attempting to project a player's value into the future, despite limited evidence. Obviously we will know when we know, but it's fun and wholly in the spirit of the NFL to make these predictions, which may seem wild to the more cautious among us.

 

[amazinPats]

Mark me up as another who thinks that Thomas might work his way into the starting lineup by end season. I was impressed by his vaccuum-like hands. This guy sucks up passes like few other tight ends. Watson seems to have it all, but his numbers always seem disappointing. He's doing well with TDs this season, but he's not catching much else. Anyway, I'll defer to the more knowledgeable posters on this one. But I do dig Thomas AND Watson.

 

[PatsFan37]

How does he have more upside?
What does Thomas do better? Watson is faster, stronger, more athletic and agile, more experienced, and has done 20 times as much on the field.

Can you define what attribute Thomas has that gives him more upside than Watson?

Agreed on most points. Where I disagree: Watson is not agile. He seems to excel in his straight-line speed and his great strength allows him to break tackles. But last year his strength did not translate into consistent blocking.

Thomas blocked pretty well for a rookie, showing good technique, and in his one (and only one) breakout game, showed good hands, good route running, and agility and balance when running after the catch. Watson needs more open field to accelerate. Once he does, he can outrun anyone. Last year, Watson saw tight coverage and never had any open field. So before anointing Thomas the #1 TE, let's see what happens with Watson under these new circumstances.

A lot of people are dinging Watson because he struggled as the focal point of the offense, dropping a few catches, some after particularly hard hits, and fumbling. This year, he's been reliable in his limited opportunities.

As for intelligence, Watson has struggled in the past to react properly to defensive coverages. This has nothing to do with wonderlic scores. This is field vision. Football smarts. So far, we haven't seen Thomas out of position for a catch, again, in limited opportunities.

Thomas has greater potential mostly because he's done so little, but also because he's made the most of his chances. Watson had a huge opportunity to stand out and did not, despite his undeniable gifts.

For these reasons, I'm excited to see what Thomas can do. If he takes advantage of his opportunities as he did in the past, he will challenge Watson in catches per game by the end of the year.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, I think he is smarter, has better hands, is a better blocker............ and as a 3rd rounder.......... over then next 2 years will cost us 1.1 MILLION LESS then Watson. Additionally, I think that if we keep Moss and keep the talent level at WR at a high level, then a smart, good blocking TE with decent hands will be FAR more valuable in our system than a fast, athletic, TE with on again, off again hands would be. Just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I like Watson. A LOT, I just think that Thomas, has the potential to be a better option in the future. With WATSON, what you see right now is what you get. At this point, we've barely seen what Thomas will bring us in the future.

How are you judging that he is smarter?
How are you judging his 'better hands and blocking'. He hasn't played hardly at all yet, I dont think there is any way you can say a guy you have barely seen is better than a guy who may be becoming one of the top TEs in the game.

Apparently, you really like the guy, but I just don't know where can draw these judgments from.

Again if I say Wesley Britt is smarter and has a better first step than Mankins, and I think he has a higher upside and will supplant him, I have exactly as muich justification of that as your argument has.

Adding in salary cap has absolutely nothing to do with the argument of who is a better player, and shows you know you have a weak argument. (Not a slam you really have a terribly weak argument because the guy just hasnt played and you are trying to argue he is better than a guy who is pro-bowl caliber)

 

[Ring 6]

Thomas has much better hands than Watson, it's not even close. I still hold my breath everytime the ball is thrown Ben's way and when he is runnig with the ball, I am hoping the defender does not strip him. If the ball is not delivered in the numbers, forget about it.

Thomas does not have Watson's physical attributes but he has football speed. There will be a time in the season when Ben is sidelined and Thomas will impress.

How many passes has Thomas caught to prove those 'better hands'? Come on, when Watson was leading the team in receiving and Thomas caught a couple passes, of course Watson dropped more. How about we watch Thomas catch at least 30 passes before we judge how many he would drop?

Again, I think Wes Britt is a better pass blocker than Light, I've never seen him allow a sack,. See the flaw?

 

[spacecrime]

is a better blocker............

Based on what? His small size? The fact that when a third TE in needed in running situations he is never on the field? I'm seen him make one noteworthy block.

I love Thomas, but he is NOT Watson (or Graham, either, for that matter)

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed on most points. Where I disagree: Watson is not agile. He seems to excel in his straight-line speed and his great strength allows him to break tackles. But last year his strength did not translate into consistent blocking.

Thomas blocked pretty well for a rookie, showing good technique, and in his one (and only one) breakout game, showed good hands, good route running, and agility and balance when running after the catch. Watson needs more open field to accelerate. Once he does, he can outrun anyone. Last year, Watson saw tight coverage and never had any open field. So before anointing Thomas the #1 TE, let's see what happens with Watson under these new circumstances.

A lot of people are dinging Watson because he struggled as the focal point of the offense, dropping a few catches, some after particularly hard hits, and fumbling. This year, he's been reliable in his limited opportunities.

As for intelligence, Watson has struggled in the past to react properly to defensive coverages. This has nothing to do with wonderlic scores. This is field vision. Football smarts. So far, we haven't seen Thomas out of position for a catch, again, in limited opportunities.

Thomas has greater potential mostly because he's done so little, but also because he's made the most of his chances. Watson had a huge opportunity to stand out and did not, despite his undeniable gifts.

For these reasons, I'm excited to see what Thomas can do. If he takes advantage of his opportunities as he did in the past, he will challenge Watson in catches per game by the end of the year.

I pretty much disagree with everything in here.
Particualrly the implicaiton that Thomas has more potential because he has done nothing and Watson failed. WATSON HAD AN EXCELLENT YEAR LAST YEAR. If Thomas EVER has a season that good I would be thrilled. (And Im not knocking Thomas) Also the statement that Watson has struggled picking up coverages. Are you out of your mind??????? Please detail for me how you have manage to view coaches film of all games, how you were able to determine the play call, Watson's responsibility on each play, what the coverage was, what the play determined his reaction to the coverage should be, and where you saw Watson not follow what the playbook and play call says he should do.

Come on. I understand you like Thomas and are trying to make a case, but you absolutely waste everyones time when you MAKE UP an argument to support what you want to be true and HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT YOU JUST STATED AS FACT.

If you would like to truly discuss the reasons you feel a guy who has played about the equivalent of 2 games of plays that a starting TE would play is better than the guy who was the leading receiver on the team last year, and who has participated in more plays than any other skill position guy this year, AND IS THE GUY BB CHOOSES TO PUT ON THE FIELD, and want to base it on something you are capable of judging, Im all ears. If you want to make up stuff that you have no way of knowing (I'm afraid to look back, please tell me you werent the guy who said Thomas was smarter) don't waste my time.

 

[mgteich]

If Thomas were such a great TE, then why isn't he our #3 TE when we play a three TE formation?