Darius Butler - 2010 week 2 Jets

[D-cleater]

I think Butler also gave up a pass to Keller as well. Including penalties he gave up way more than 100 yards, no question about that. There is also no question that he is going to be targeted until he gets some help.

In terms of other options, this will sound crazy but I'd like to see what Wheatley can do when he's healthy. Butler is not that bad at covering.... but given his athletic ability, perhaps he would make a solid nickelback , with Wheatley lining up as the RCB, his natural position.

I guess this takes some of the heat off of Wilhite now :bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

I think Butler also gave up a pass to Keller as well. Including penalties he gave up way more than 100 yards, no question about that. There is also no question that he is going to be targeted until he gets some help.

In terms of other options, this will sound crazy but I'd like to see what Wheatley can do when he's healthy. Butler is not that bad at covering.... but given his athletic ability, perhaps he would make a solid nickelback , with Wheatley lining up as the RCB, his natural position.

I guess this takes some of the heat off of Wilhite now :bricks:

I will comment more specifically when i rewatch the game.
However the comment I was responding to was one that said Edwards beat him all day long.

 

[PugBrady]

For me, of all the bad plays that Butler made, the worst was on the 2 point conversion. The ball was badly under thrown, Butler was in the correct position, yet somehow the receiver ended up jumping over Butler and essentially made the catch over Butler's helmet. Butler often seems to be in the correct position, but he has ZERO ball skills.

 

[TimU]

Darius Bust-ler?

Seriously it is early in his career, and he can develop. But he is struggling.

 

[RayClay]

If Wheatley's ever healthy, I'd start him and let Butler work himself back in.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Darius Bust-ler?

Seriously it is early in his career, and he can develop. But he is struggling.

Bustler? Is that yours? LOL.

 

[Modest]

Makes me wonder how he performs in practice.

 

[WhiZa]

Butler did make some plays, but he definitly needed help. The refs weren't giving him anything. I'm not worried about it honestly. He'll figure it out.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So he let up more passes than were caught?
It isnt a matter of stats, its a matter of saying he couldn't cover the guy who caught passes for fewer yards than a #1 WR typically does.
Are you saying Edwards had a tremendous game?
WRs catch passes, corners let up receptions. The average team throws for more than 200 yards each game. Corners allow completions. 5 is not a lot.

Take the rose colored glasses off for a moment and own up. Butler got schooled this Sunday. Do I believe he can get better? Yes. Is he still a tremendous athelete? Yes. Does he still need to do a LOT of work before he can be considered a solid starter in the NFL. Hell yes.

It's not always the quantity of the passes given up but also where you give them up. Butler made mistakes that extended drives and got burned on receptions in the endzone. Crucial mistakes at the worst times. Same thing with the Pats defense last year. It didn't matter that they ended up 5th overall in points allowed when they were consistently giving up the points to lose games in the 2nd half that season.

It is clear that the Pats defense and in particular their secondary has their work cut out for them. They need to correct their mistakes and get better for next week. Giving these guys a free pass, turning a blind eye, or making excuses for them is not going to help them one bit. The first step to FIXING a Problem is Admitting that THERE IS a Problem.

 

[upstater1]

I think Butler also gave up a pass to Keller as well. Including penalties he gave up way more than 100 yards, no question about that. There is also no question that he is going to be targeted until he gets some help.

If you're talking about the TD throw to Keller, that was McCourty.

 

[upstater1]

For me, of all the bad plays that Butler made, the worst was on the 2 point conversion. The ball was badly under thrown, Butler was in the correct position, yet somehow the receiver ended up jumping over Butler and essentially made the catch over Butler's helmet. Butler often seems to be in the correct position, but he has ZERO ball skills.

WRONG. Actually, I find Butler is OUT OF POSITION most times. His ball skills are the things that elevated him into the second round. He was the highest jumper at the NFL combine, he had NBA stats, and he played WR all his life, so he has good hands and can track a ball. What he doesn't have is much experience tracking WRs since he only played zone in college.

I know the play you're talking about. Does it occur to you that he was pushed? I mean, he was just thrown off to the side. Believe me, there is no way that Edwards could outjump Butler. Butler is able to execute windmill dunks on the basketball court, and I just looked at their combine numbers. Butler jumps a full 4 inches higher than Edwards.

I don't know if Butler will ever learn the finer points of the CB position (i.e. anticipating the WRs moves by foot position and body lean) but I know what he excels at, and that's ball skills. Even on his first PI yesterday, he exhibited great ball skills.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, lets introduce some facts into this discussion.
1) Braylon Edwards did not beat Butler all day long. He caught 3 passes with Butler in coverage. (4 with the 2pt conv)
One was a 2 yard pass in a zone between TBC and Butler. If we expect a corner in zone to stop a 2 yard pass we might as well start following cricket.
One was the TD
The other was 3rd down conv early in the game in zone coverage.
2) Cothcery caught 2 passes with Butler in coverage. One was a 2 yard pass in zone, like the one above. The other was a 1 yard completion in man coverage.
3) The long completion to Keller on play action on 3rd and short may or may not have been his man. Chung was totally suckered by the fake, and its hard to tell whether Butler or Chung had him. I would tend to think Butler had the responsibility because he chased Keller rather than the RB in the flat but without knowing the coverage called its impossible to say who blew the coverage.

In any event, aside from that play, he allowed 5 catches, and nothing beyond about 10 yards downfield.
Yes, one was a TD, and yes there were 2 p.i.s, one a terrible call and the other a bad play and also a bad call because it was uncatchable.
To say Butler was burned all day or was terrible is ridiculous. A corner allowing 5 catches none more than 10 yards downfield to a team throwing the ball 30 times isn't close to awful.

 

[Bonzo]

Bodden will be here for the next few years, and it's been said many times that Butler has the skill set to be an excellent nickelback. (Whether this is valid remains to be seen, I suppose.) Is it time to start developing him in this role, and let him take his snaps covering the slot, meanwhile letting the others (Wheatley/Wilhite/Arrington) take a crack at the #2 CB?

 

[upstater1]

Read this from Wilfork:

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

One reason why this is happening is because Mayo gets engulfed by OL.

When you couple that with our safety play (the middle of the field is wide open) you realize we have a lot of young guys that need to learn.

Frankly, I see Butler getting the brunt of the criticism, but Chung, Meriweather, Mayo are right there in the same boat.

McCourty and Spikes are coming along nicely for rooks.

But they are young. The entire defense needs to improve.

 

[pheenix11]

Anyone else have a flashback to Ellis Hobbs on that fade route in the end zone?

 

[Ring 6]

Read this from Wilfork:

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

One reason why this is happening is because Mayo gets engulfed by OL.

When you couple that with our safety play (the middle of the field is wide open) you realize we have a lot of young guys that need to learn.

Frankly, I see Butler getting the brunt of the criticism, but Chung, Meriweather, Mayo are right there in the same boat.

McCourty and Spikes are coming along nicely for rooks.

But they are young. The entire defense needs to improve.

Defintely the safeties were a bigger problem than the corners.
In run D, really they had 3 very effective plays, all by LT..back to back runs for first downs (14 and 11?) then a 31 yarder. Aside from that the run D was very acceptable.
On the back to back runs we had a DL of Wilfork at DE, Pryor at NT and Wright at DE.
On the 31 yard run, the put 3 wide playside, Ninko widened out. They send 4 blockers at Brace and the ILB, and Ninko was unblocked and botched the play by flailing at the RB when he wasnt blocked by anyone.

Those are not massive run D problems, they are bad substitutions and a missed tackle on a play design that was poor if Ninko could play and genius if he chokes on it.

 

[sieglo]

For me, of all the bad plays that Butler made, the worst was on the 2 point conversion. The ball was badly under thrown, Butler was in the correct position, yet somehow the receiver ended up jumping over Butler and essentially made the catch over Butler's helmet. Butler often seems to be in the correct position, but he has ZERO ball skills.

This is about right. I'm not sure what's more frustrating to watch -- when the corner is just badly burned (last year), or when he's there to make the play and fails to do so every time (this year).

 

[upstater1]

This is about right. I'm not sure what's more frustrating to watch -- when the corner is just badly burned (last year), or when he's there to make the play and fails to do so every time (this year).

I'm seeing last year more than this year. I think he's out of position.

In limited opportunities, he had a couple of picks last year. This year he made a spectacular pick in the first game on a play in which we had encroachment. He can definitely make plays on the ball. What I'm seeing is that he doesn't read the WRs body well.

Look at both PIs and the play in the end zone.

On the first PI, he showed good ball skills. On the second, he didn't read the receivers bend correctly and he just ran by him. He was not anywhere near making a play on the ball (even if the ball had been thrown correctly), and in the end zone he was pushed in the back.

Same thing in the first game. When he was in position, he knocked down balls and made the INT. But he was behind a step against Ocho much of the day.

 

[Sicilian]

But they are young.

I don't think this is stated enough. We essentially have the following starting on this defense right now:

1 rookie (McCourty)
3 2nd year players (Brace, Butler, Chung)
1 3rd year player (Mayo)

With the following playing significant (possibly just under starting time) roles:

2 rookies (Spikes, Cunningham)
1 2nd year player (Pryor)
2 3rd year players (Guyton, Wilhite)

That's 10 players playing very important roles on this defense who are just starting their 3rd year or less. I expect them to get better as the year goes on. The disappointment will be if they DON'T improve, not that they weren't already playing great in week 2.

 

[condon84]

One thing I noticed yesterday was that our safeties were playing so far off the LOS. This probably affected their ability to help with the run and contributed to Sanchez feeling more comfortable because the middle of the field seemed so wide open.

It's like our coaching staff watched the Ravens/Jets game and completely did the opposite of what the Ravens did.