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Dallas shopping M. Spears and B. Carpenter at Senior Bowl

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PonyExpress, Jan 23, 2008.

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  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    According to Dallas Morning News, via gbnreport.com:
    http://www.gbnreport.com/

  2. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    No Offence but both of them stink...when i saw the name M. Spears for a while i had him confused with Demarcus Ware. Now D Ware is a player i would give up alot for. Spears is getting up there in age and Carpenter have not lived up to his draft billing.
  3. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Spears was a number one draft pick from the same draft as Ware, so you must be getting him confused with somebody else. I wouldn't mind having him, but I certainly wouldn't pay much.
  4. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Sorry you're right i have M. Spears confused with Greg Ellis.:bricks:
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  5. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    There's a lesson in there.

    A lot of people thought for sure the Pats should draft Carpenter. He was a natural....but obviously he hasn't done too well in Dallas.

    It's easy to get excited about "can't miss" prospects. The reality of it is usually different though.
  6. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    Carpenter was drafted by Parcells to play ILB after a few years of learning the defence. He was pressed into action as an OLB due to injuries last year. This year, he was going to be given a shot to start alongside Akin Ayodele but pulled a hammy in training camp. He gave it a go in their last preseason game (still nursing?) and failed to impress in a couple of quarters of work. Bradie James started the season and became the Cowboys' leader on defence. Carpenter is a Parcells/Belichick ILB as opposed to a Phillips one.

    Carpenter was excellent on special teams (along with Justin Rogers) for the 'boys.
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So . . . would you offer, say, a third for him?
  8. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    I doubt they get more than a mid to late third for either player. BB values experience in his LB's, as we've seen. If he offered up our third for Carp, I'd trust his judgement. I've read in places that Carp would be better at 4-3 SAM, as he was in college. I'm not sure if that was the case, given his size, why he wouldn't be suited to play in our 3-4 (unless there's intelligence issues).
  9. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    If he's a good player, what does it matter who is the coach? ARe there some things he "can't do"? Or "can't learn"? Why?

    If they're trying to dump him, he probably sucks.
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wes Welker and Mike Vrabel, among others, both say hi.
  11. bevster

    bevster PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that they are trying to shop these players for additional draft picks to give them ammunition to trade up in the draft for McFadden.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  12. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    The Phillips 3-4 defense is a little different from BB's 3-4 in that the DL gets to attack before reading. They sacrifice control of the LOS in order to gain real estate, hopefully in the opponents backfield.
    Therefore the Phillips ILBs are not expected to take on OGs and TEs, but instead they are expected to get to the ball.

    Setting aside Spears, who was never all that good to start with, I do not think it is fair to say Carpenter is a bust because he was drafted to play in the BP 3-4 defense, but instead has to do something different in the Phillips 3-4 defense.

    If both wind up in Miami, then they should both become decent players again, although Carpenter still needs some experience.
  13. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    I think that Spears as a 3-4 DE was a bit of a failed experiment because he doesn't live up to first round billing, though he is certainly capable at the position and could start for some 3-4 teams. He's behind Canty and Ratliff in Dallas though. Hatcher will probably have passed him next year too.

    I think Spears could maximize his value as a DT 4-3 defence. Rumour has it Denver has spoken to Dallas about one or both of these players. They could certainly use a good run defender like Spears in the middle of their defence.
  14. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Both of them showed brilliance when they were allowed to play. Welker was considered uncoverable.

    What has Carpenter ever shown?

    A 3rd round pick? Are you kidding? He's probably headed toward the waiver wire.
  15. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    He was great on special teams, which is all he was given a chance to do under Wade. He played two quarters at ILB under Wade Phillips and that was in a preseason game with reserves. He played mostly outside under Parcells due to lack of options at the position.

    With regard to our third round pick, I said if BB thought it was a good idea, I wouldn't doubt him. I know you haven't seen Carpenter play ILB in the NFL, McBee, so why are you so sure he can't do it? Just because Phillips is shopping him for a draft pick?? C'mon.
  16. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's ok to defer to others who just might have seen these guys play more than you or comprehend the nuances of football better than you and I.....

    Try it once, I guarantee you'll feel better about yourself.
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd like to see the Pats make a play for Carpenter. He's only 24 years old, and he has the size the Pats like in the middle. I'm not sure what he'd be worth but if we gave up a 3rd, remember that it'll be a pick at the end of the round.
  18. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I would definitely give up a 3rd or 4th rounder for a flyer on Carpenter.
  19. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Agreed!

    McBee's comments surprise me, as I think Bobby's got what it takes to develop in BB's 3-4. Remember, not every LB comes right in and makes an impact their first year, or two. The fact that Carpenter was still in the process of learning Parcells system when the Cowboys switched to Wades system has likely effected his development, as well. In my opinion he's a 3-4 SILB (who can play at OLB in spot duty), and in Wade's system he's out of place. I'd give the Cowboys a 3rd round pick for him, and I doubt he's hitting the waiver wires this year.

    I talked to Bobby prior to the 2006 NFL draft, and he seemed like a very intelligent guy, with his head on straight. At the time he was hoping to play for either Parcells or BB. He got his wish (at first), but that didn't last very long.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  20. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Agreed. The Cowboys have a different system. The kid likes to hit (see ST results).Vrable was buried too in the wrong system. With a few plays under his belt that experience is what would interest BB over any LB he would draft in the 3rd (never anyway!).

    DW Toys
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