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DaBruinz Mock: 2 versions... see why :>

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by DaBruinz, Apr 4, 2006.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I posted this in the regular forum as part of a thread, but I wanted to post it in here as well to get feed back. I also expanded some on why I felt the way I did.

    My "ultimate" draft would be as follows: (with the assumption that Lawson was off the board)


    1st round: Marshall - CB - Safer bet than Cromartie
    2nd round: Addai - RB - Very good, all-around RB
    3rd round (a): Mark Anderson - DE/OLB - Tweener who may be better value than Lawson
    3rd round (b): Hank Baskett - WR - Solid WR
    4th round (a): Chris Gocong - DE/ILB - Could be a Bruschi type player
    4th round (b): David Thomas - TE - Solid TE with good receiving skills and adequate blocking skills
    5th round : Chris Chester - C - Insurance in case of Koppen not being ready
    6th round (a): Chris Kuper - G/T - Developmental player to push Gorin, Steitz and Britt.
    6th round (b): Matt Bernstein - FB/TE - Someone who is a very good all-around athelete. Old-school style FB. Not very quick, but very powerful. Good hands out of the backfield and good route running. Excellent at picking up the blitz and lead blocking. I could see him lining up at multiple positions (FB, Lone Set back, TE, FB) and really creating havoc for the defense in terms of the play-calling.
    6th round (c): Josh Huston - K - Someone to replace Adam, but who has a tremendous leg. Needs to work on his accuracy some. Not a lot of experience though he played in Ohio last year so he's got big school experience. Also, Ohio plays in some cold weather.
    7th round (a): Carlton Jones - RB - had gotten great reviews, but is unheralded because he played for Army. Pats brought him in for a workout. Showed tons of maturity and leadership becoming a captain of the ARMY team. Supposedly has great hands, speed to hit the holes inside. Hits the holes with Authority. 2 different sites both say he is a complete back (The HuddleReport And NFLDraftScout.com) His commitment to the Army was explained on the Huddle Report page as follows:


    http://www.thehuddlereport.com/NickelPackage/profiles/CarltonJones.htm

    If Lawson was still on the board:
    1st round: Lawson - OLB - Should help to lessen the load of losing Willie
    2nd round: Daryn Colledge - OT - Can also be an OG. Could be worked into the rotation and give the Pats tremendous depth. Could push Kaczur into Ashworth's swing tackle position or could force Light to the RG spot. Would also be protection for Hochstein leaving
    3rd round (a): Maurice Drew - RB - A very good PR/KR candidate. Is like a bowling ball at 5'7 and 208 lbs. Have seen him likened to a Brian Westbrook style back.
    3rd round (b): Mike Hass - WR - talented possession WR.
    4th round (a): Greg Eslinger - C - More insurance in case of Koppen not being ready.
    4th round (b): Chris Gocong - DE/ILB - Potential long term conversion project.
    5th round : Montavius Stanley - NT - back-up to Wilfork.
    6th round (a): Paul Pinegar - QB - Project QB
    6th round (b): Matt Bernstein - FB/TE - See above
    6th round (c): Josh Huston - K - see above
    7th round (a): Carlton Jones - RB - see above

    Message was edited by: DaBruinz
  2. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    No, not Lawson! Lawson can pass rush, that is all. He is a liability against the run. He's undersized even for a OLB. He needs to get stronger and has a hard time taking on blockers. As a DE in college, he would need major time to adjust and could not contribute much as a rookie. Lawson is a workout warrior, and fans are falling in love with his combine numbers.

    Carpenter is a much, much better fit.
  3. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey



    Glad to see that you addressed one of our needs that has gone over looked in most mocks.

    That is a backup NT to give Big Vince some rest and play if Vince should get hurt.

    This I think is one of the more important positions that we need. It's not easy to find a 2 gap NT but fortunately there are some in this draft.
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    I like a lot of things about these drafts. Naturally, we'll disagree about a couple of players (Baskett and Pinegar, for instance) but I have one major question: in both versions, you drafted 3 RBs -- two HBs and a FB! Where are you putting those players? Especially in version 1 where you also draft a TE/H-back in David Thomas, so you're not counting Bernstein in that role.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Sigh, I had a nice reply and my computer died.

    Although the idea of using the LB depth to draft the BPA in Round One is intriguing, it would be very risky as we really need a LB who can play now unless we want to go with Beisel inside or TBC outside.

    I like your first draft except I think you have Marshall and Addai a round too early. Put Carpenter in for round one, take Marshall or Addai in round two (good chance one would be there), take another WR instead of Thomas (or that TE from Western Michigan) and T/C Ryan Cook instead of Chester and I'm happy.

    Second draft, I like getting the round one LB, not thrilled about Colledge in round two. I'm fine with the rest although I still like Cook as the developmental C (although he's a little tall for C), I like Pinegar.

    Combining and changing them, I like :

    1) Lawson (or Carpenter or Greenway)
    2) Marshall or Addai or Bing
    3a) Anderson
    3b) Avant
    4a) Baskett
    4b) Cook

    That gives us two LB, two WR, a backup, versatile Center (maybe one of yours would be better as a starting C, I'll admit but I like Cook's versatility) and a BPA at CB, S or RB.
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I guess you need to be reminded that Colvin supposedly could only pass rush as well. Yet, he was very solid against the run last year.

    Lawson isn't undersized for an OLB. He may not be cut and jacked at 265, but he's a solid 242 and I see no reason why the Pats couldn't put 10 lbs on him before the start of the season.

    Also, I suggest you get some facts straight. I didn't "fall in love with Lawson because of his workout numbers." I've grown to like him because I see similarities to McGinest in him. Also, he did pretty well in the Senior Bowl.

    For the record, every friggin rookie is going to need time to adjust. I don't see the Pats trading all their draft picks to get vets from other teams.

    Now, as for Carpenter. There are too many rumors that he was the last LB to react in the OSU defense on plays and too many rumors that Schlegel was the one calling out the defenses for Carpenter for there not to be some fact. I don't believe that Carpenter is all that, honestly, and I think that he's not going to be anything outstanding in the NFL.

    Sorry, but Carpenter is, arguably, the most over-rated LB prospect out there.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Patchick -
    I was wondering when someone would notice.

    1) I am not sold on Pass or Evans as adequate back-ups to Faulk and Dillon
    2) Having 2 players developing behind Faulk and Dillon would help, a lot, since Faulk has been injured each of the last 3 years and Dillon 2 of the last 3 years.
    3) Bernstein, in my honest opinion, could probably supplant Pass as the starting FB and take Pass' place on special teams. Bernstein could also act as the short yardage RB. He has that ability
    4) I see Jones as a developmental pick for the practice squad. However, he's someone who could force the issue for the Pats to carry 4 RBs. And I wouldn't mind seeing Evans hit the road to do so.
    5) Having Bernstein and Thomas develop as H-back types behind Graham and Watson would be a good thing because the the potential loss of Graham to free agency next year. Also, as has been pointed out, neither Watson nor Graham have shown they can stay on the field for a whole season.
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's something that Pro Football Weekly's magazine said, that he might be overdrafted due to his athletic ability. I think I'll go and ask on a Browns' board (lots of Buckeye fans) and see what they say.
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    BBFan -
    Not sure how you can say that I had Marshall and Addai a round early. Some mocks have Addai going in the 1st round to the Colts. (See Don Banks). Also, many people felt that the Pats took Mankins too early. However, they didn't view it that way.
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    They're a round early for where I would take them. This is a much stronger draft than last year, it's not a draft to be reaching. It's so deep that players will be taken in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round who we would never think would last that long 4 weeks ahead of time. Might we lose Marshall and Addai by waiting a round ? Absolutetly we might. But if so there will be excellent alternatives to take.
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Dabruinz, I really like a bunch of your picks. And I think you bring up a real good point about Pass and Evans. Of course Pass does a decent job on ST and that part of his game might be missed.
    I like the comparison of Drew to Westbrook, and while Westbrook is a little thicker, Drew is a better PR.
    I think Stanley has the discipline to play gap control NT and having the time to learn under Wilfork would probably be an ideal situation for a young NT in a 3-4.
    I've been rethinking the Hass situation, while he'll never be a vertical threat, he could prosper in our system running certain routes.
  12. big mike

    big mike Rookie

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    Lawson is lanky. He's about 3 inches taller than Carpenter, and 15 pounds lighter. Yes, he probably could put on weight, and there's a decent chance he could become a very good 3-4 OLB. I see Carpenter as more of a sure thing though. Lawson has more potential upside, but also more risk. Colvin may have had a rep for not being good against the run in college, but I don't recall ever hearing that while he was in the pros before NE took him. That is a common knock on Lawson though.

    As far as I can tell, those rumors are being spread by only a small handful of people.

    In your opinion. In someone's opinion, ANYONE is arguably the most over-rated player in the draft. There are many, many people who completely disagree with you on Carpenter. For example,
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/bobbycarpenter.html
    "One of the drafts most underrated players"

    The only reason, IMO, that we have a shot at Carpenter at 21 (and could even trade down some) is due to his broken ankle late in the season. If not for that, I can easily see him going top 15.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Here's the only response I got so far :

    "I'm sure Schlegel did call out defenses since he was the MLB. Just the nature of the positions.

    I like Carpenter and think he'd be a good fit as a hybrid, but I have doubts about his hip swivel and ultimately his ability to turn and cover even though he has good speed. He's a good, not great pass rusher. But more than anything he's physical at the POA.

    I could see NE taking him with their first pick, but Manny Lawson is a much better athlete. Belichick would find a way to make Carp work. He reminds me more of Vrabel than anybody. Depends on how much you think of Vrabel I guess."
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Here's the response from the draft stud over there :

    "Seriously though, it's the one major knock on Carp outside of his currenty injury situation. Something I noticed very early in the year. Carpenter is much more comfortable with his hand in the dirt when OSU asked him to do so. As an OLB he always seemed anywhere from a half step to a full step slow reacting.

    Yes I realize both Hawk and Schlegel are very good instinctually, but Carp is a bit slow in his reads for any top LB prospect."
  15. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Very positive development that the thread began focusing on Carpenter's mysteries.

    The good news, either way, is that Vrabel can give the Pats a firm fix on Carpenter ... due to his continued close involvement with the OSU program.
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your second draft did much better, let's hope Lawson is still on the board. You hit players at areas I wanted to address with players I wanted: Lawson & Gocong at LB, Colledge at OT/OG, Hass at WR, Drew at PR/KR/Scatback, and Stanley at NT/DE. Eslinger is much slower then I hoped at Center, but he is a good technician from what I've read. Allow me to say how shocked I am! Of course, it took you two tries to get it right. ;)
  17. nickw308810

    nickw308810 Rookie

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    Not bad drafts. Pretty solid. In the first draft, I would like to say I am not a big Mark Anderson fan. He never impressed me at Alabama, and has only shot up because of his workouts. He did have 7.5 sacks his senior year, which was by far the most in his career. Not a bad pick, but I would prefer one of the other LB. I like Marshall and Addai, no complaints there. Hank Baskett is a good WR, but I would hope we would go after someone quicker. His height is a plus, but I just don't think he would do much to improve our WR core. Though obviously he would make the team. I think Bernstein is too much of a traditional fullback, and we seem to have gone away from that the last few years. Id be surprised if Evans made our 53 man roster.

    I like the 2nd draft. There isn't too many OL I like, but Colledge is one of them, but I think it would be a stretch to see him there at our pick. I think Haas would fit well in our system, wish he was a little faster, but he is quick enough and smart enough to get enough seperation. Maybe could have him a little later, but I am not sure. I hear so many things about Eslinger I don't know what to think about him. Watching him play he looked like one heck of a center, but a lot of people credit it to the blocking scheme. Don't know much about Jones except he had one huge bowl game. Good sleeper pick.
  18. Joe_n99

    Joe_n99 Rookie

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    My first post... :)

    I think the second draft is the best one i've seen so far because of the Positions/needs targeted and prioritization. I also agree with your explanation later about RB/FB.

    Here is why I Strongly believe they will almost exactly what your second draft says with one small change I mention later. (trade down) based on my gut and what I THINK Belichek thinks.

    First, DEFENSE and BALL Control (Includes Field Position, T.O.'s and Time of possession) are what I believe are the two main priorities to BB ALWAYS. Having said that I believe three things KILL BB about last season.
    1. Watching opp. QB's sit back/scramble for 5 seconds until mediocre WR's finally get open for first down after first down. (see patriots listed near bottom of most defensive team stats) This is 50/50 the fault of the secondary and DL/LB. I think they will address LB as a #1 priority and DL Depth as a #2 priority (REAL backup to spell Wilfork (Stanley?) so he is fresh for playoffs). I believe Rodney is returning and BB will count on system, experience and coaching to bring secondary along. Historically they have been able to bring DB's along almost on a game by game improvement, though Marshall may be BPA/Value

    2. No holes/ No running game/ Failing on short yardage. Again 50/50 OL/RB+FB. I think they will address depth at OL early as well. Being able to rest/spell/keep healthy OL will greatly increase success/performance into playoffs. I also think they will go to TE (3TE Set?) and FB more often. Also, why I agree they may pick up a bulldog (bowling ball) style short yardage back in the draft. #3 Priority OL depth (Colledge) #4 Priority Ball control contributors BPA - TE, RB (Drew), FB, Possession WR(Haas), OL/DL/LB again(Gocong).

    3. Our horrendous special teams play on both sides of the ball. I think BB believes Brady's success spreading the ball around will continue especially with improvements on the line and in the running game. I would like point out that Givens is NOT T.O. and Branch is NOT Jerry Rice and that the system and Brady have a lot to do with their success and Caldwell/Draft pick/Brown/Johnson/whoever will do nicely with Graham/Watson/Running Game helping out. So I predict picking up even more depth and special teams specialists despite bringing in Mitchell and whatever other FA's come in rather than high profile FA's or Skill positon players.
    Priority #5 and #6 Depth (Eslinger) and Special teams K-PR-KR-Gunners (Huston), blockers "Players". They will have other "picks" before these priorities but I still think the priority is what matters to BB and they will take BPA for value when it is called for.

    Finally I believe they are going to do all this exactly how RookBoston says they will in another post, by trading down to late 1st or high 2nd round and getting another 3rd. Assuming of course "Wilfork" scenario doesn't happen again. Here is the post from RookBoston had it as follows:

    "Trading down to #30 (Indianapolis) or #27 (Panthers), could all make sense, especially is Deangelo Williams is the target. Those teams are all a RB short of a full contingent. Even the Jets (#29) and Jags (#28) make sense.

    That trade down would be enough to trade up from the early 4th to the late 2nd.

    So, #21, #52, #75, #86, #100 becomes #30, #52, #62, #75, #86

    #21 - OLB Bobby Carpenter
    #52 - CB Richard Marshall
    #75 - WR Maurice Stovall
    #86 - ILB Abdul Hodge
    #100-OL Patrick Ross

    #30 - OLB Mathias Kiwanuka
    #52 - CB Richard Marshall
    #62 - OT Darryn Colledge
    #75 - WR Maurice Stovall
    #86 - ILB Abdul Hodge"
    "
    I leave it to other guru's to ID the specific players but the Concept here is what I believe is most likely to address BB's priorities based on what I think. Also, they might have some of these priorities addressed in their minds already.. NFLE/Practice Squad(Steitz, Britt, Charles,Stone, etc). All of the POSITIONS you pick in your second draft contribute to ball control football in areas we need addressed. RookBostons trade down allows us to fill most needs/value.

    I know some of this is stating obvious and of course mostly opinion but I hope I didn't embarrass myself to much with my first LONG ASS post. :)

    Joe
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2006
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Joe, Can't say your any nuttier then the rest of us, seems like you'll fit in. Welcome! :cool:
  20. Joe_n99

    Joe_n99 Rookie

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    Thanks

    Thanks Box o Rocks! I have been "lurking" for a long time, finally decided to open my big mouth!

    Joe
    Wondering why I didn't come up with a cool login name... :p
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