Cutting Top Draftees

[mgteich]

Some folks think that we might cut a draftee if they are not good enough to make the 53. Others would cut 2nd year high draftees.

Let's be clear. Belichick has never cut a 1st-4th rounder before Game One. Belichick has never cut a 1st or 2nd rounder before Game One of his second year. I believe that he did cut a couple of awful 3rd rounder before the Game 2 of Year 2.
==========================

As much as folks dislike Bilichick's special needs picks (Bequette, Wilson, and Harmon), they will make the 53 unless Bilichick changes his attitude towards his draftees (which is of course possible).

 

[VrabelJr]

Cutting draft picks is a sure fire way to lose out on the best benefit of the draft: roster spots at a cheap price. The difference between veteran pay and rookie pay can be hundreds of thousands to half a million or more dollars. If you cut 6 players on rookie deals and replace them with 6 veterans with more NFL tenure you might cost yourself $2 million or more salary cap dollars that year. That could be a decent free agent signing.

 

[Brady6]

Some folks think that we might cut a draftee if they are good enough to make the 53. Others would cut 2nd year high draftees.

Let's be clear. Belichick has never cut a 1st-4th rounder before Game One. Belichick has never cut a 1st or 2nd rounder before Game One of his second year. I believe that he did cut a couple of awful 3rd rounder before the Game 2 of Year 2.
==========================

As much as folks dislike Bilichick's special needs picks (Bequette, Wilson, and Harmon), they will make the 53 unless Bilichick changes his attitude towards his draftees (which is of course possible).

I believe Belichick would cut a top draft pick if he felt they weren’t good enough to make the roster. I just don’t think that is the case with Tavon Wilson as many have suggested; I felt despite some rookie mistakes (deep passes against Seattle and St Louis) Wilson played solid and even well at times in his rookie season. My opinion is that Wilson playing with the 3rd string is more about him matching up against a mobile quarterback (Tebow) than it being indicative of Wilson being in the dog house.

The 2 big plays against Seattle and St Louis on boot leg plays in which the QB was outside of the of the pocket; with Brady and Mallett both primarily pocket quarterbacks it’s logical if that is a part of Wilson game (decision making when the QB is out of the pocket) that Belichick is prioritizing improving, to have him match up against a guy like Tebow who will be outside of the pocket a lot more.

Bequette I’m not so sure about; but I would expect to see them give up on a guy like Cunningham who’s entering his 4th season before they give up on Bequette.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Some folks think that we might cut a draftee if they are good enough to make the 53. Others would cut 2nd year high draftees.

Let's be clear. Belichick has never cut a 1st-4th rounder before Game One. Belichick has never cut a 1st or 2nd rounder before Game One of his second year. I believe that he did cut a couple of awful 3rd rounder before the Game 2 of Year 2.
==========================

As much as folks dislike Bilichick's special needs picks (Bequette, Wilson, and Harmon), they will make the 53 unless Bilichick changes his attitude towards his draftees (which is of course possible).

Beq will be at risk if the Armistead zombie recovers since Forston is playing decently and as Deus would say the other lousy pass rusher contendahs are showing decent mediocrity in camp.

 

[mgteich]

DEFENSIVE TACKLES
Wilfork, Kelly, Forston, Armstead

Even if Armstead is not on the Game One 53, I don't expect that this position would go to Bequette.

Beq will be at risk if the Armistead zombie recovers since Forston is playing decently and as Deus would say the other lousy pass rusher contendahs are showing decent mediocrity in camp.

 

[Mack Herron]

Some folks think that we might cut a draftee if they are good enough to make the 53. Others would cut 2nd year high draftees.

Let's be clear. Belichick has never cut a 1st-4th rounder before Game One. Belichick has never cut a 1st or 2nd rounder before Game One of his second year. I believe that he did cut a couple of awful 3rd rounder before the Game 2 of Year 2.
==========================

As much as folks dislike Bilichick's special needs picks (Bequette, Wilson, and Harmon), they will make the 53 unless Bilichick changes his attitude towards his draftees (which is of course possible).

The stats are interesting but there is always a first time. Harmon and Wilson may be in direct competition for the same position. With Ebner being a ST standout and also providing safety depth, McCourty fixed, and Gregory and Wilson FA signings, there could be an interesting cut at this position.

 

[Brady6]

DEFENSIVE TACKLES
Wilfork, Kelly, Forston, Armstead

Even if Armstead is not on the Game One 53, I don't expect that this position would go to Bequette.

Belichick appears to be moving towards using a defensive end type at the 3Tech defensive tackle position as often as possible now; I tend to agree with the logic behind it as well, if Wilfork is lined up in the 1Tech at right defensive tackle he will generally consume the left guard and the center, this leaves the 3Tech to work one on one with the right guard, which is a position that is generally manned by the less athletic offensive guard on the line. In theory Belichick is matching Jones and Wilfork, who are the best players overall as well as in terms of combining athleticism and strength against the left tackle, left guard, and center; and then matching two smaller more agile players up against the heavier less athletic right side of the offensive line.

So with that being the case I think you have to look at the depth differently.

1Tech – right defensive tackle (all situations)
Wilfork
Kelly
Fortson

3Tech – left defensive tackle (early downs/run stopping situations)
Kelly

3Tech – left defensive tackle (passing situations)
Cunningham
Francis
Benard

I do not think that they will use Bequette as a 3Tech either; it is my understanding he spent most of the off season working with Ninkovich on OLB/DE training, not to mention the snaps he took at 3Tech last season were awful he was stoned.

 

[Deus Irae]

Some folks think that we might cut a draftee if they are not good enough to make the 53. Others would cut 2nd year high draftees.

Let's be clear. Belichick has never cut a 1st-4th rounder before Game One. Belichick has never cut a 1st or 2nd rounder before Game One of his second year. I believe that he did cut a couple of awful 3rd rounder before the Game 2 of Year 2.
==========================

As much as folks dislike Bilichick's special needs picks (Bequette, Wilson, and Harmon), they will make the 53 unless Bilichick changes his attitude towards his draftees (which is of course possible).

Kevin O'Connell is wondering why you've forgotten him.

 

[Brady6]

The stats are interesting but there is always a first time. Harmon and Wilson may be in direct competition for the same position. With Ebner being a ST standout and also providing safety depth, McCourty fixed, and Gregory and Wilson FA signings, there could be an interesting cut at this position.

This begs the question is Ebner that much better as a special teams player than say Gregory to compensate for the loss of what Gregory could also provide to the defense? I don't think he is; he may provide more value to the special teams unit but when you look at the overall value to the team I'm going with Gregory, Wilson or Harmon over Ebner unless he significantly improved his safety play during the offseason.

 

[Oswlek]

Belichick appears to be moving towards using a defensive end type at the 3Tech defensive tackle position as often as possible now;

I'm assuming that you are referring to the DE subs at UT last year, which may have been more a reaction to lack a pass rushing DT bodies available. Said another way, had Pryor and Fanane not fizzled out, do you think those smaller interior subs would have played as much?

IMO, if Bill had 300 lbers who could rush the passer, he'd prefer them over guys 40 pounds smaller.

 

[manxman2601]

Belichick appears to be moving towards using a defensive end type at the 3Tech defensive tackle position as often as possible now; I tend to agree with the logic behind it as well, if Wilfork is lined up in the 1Tech at right defensive tackle he will generally consume the left guard and the center, this leaves the 3Tech to work one on one with the right guard, which is a position that is generally manned by the less athletic offensive guard on the line. In theory Belichick is matching Jones and Wilfork, who are the best players overall as well as in terms of combining athleticism and strength against the left tackle, left guard, and center; and then matching two smaller more agile players up against the heavier less athletic right side of the offensive line.

So with that being the case I think you have to look at the depth differently.

1Tech – right defensive tackle (all situations)
Wilfork
Kelly
Fortson

3Tech – left defensive tackle (early downs/run stopping situations)
Kelly

3Tech – left defensive tackle (passing situations)
Cunningham
Francis
Benard

I do not think that they will use Bequette as a 3Tech either; it is my understanding he spent most of the off season working with Ninkovich on OLB/DE training, not to mention the snaps he took at 3Tech last season were awful he was stoned.

No wonder they were awful.

 

[Brady6]

Beq will be at risk if the Armistead zombie recovers since Forston is playing decently and as Deus would say the other lousy pass rusher contendahs are showing decent mediocrity in camp.

Did word ever leak about where the infection was?

 

[Brady6]

No wonder they were awful.

:lol2: ****....


good call though :youtheman:

 

[mgteich]

I indicated that no 1st or 2nd rounder was cut before Game One of his second year. O'Connell was a 3rd rounder.

Kevin O'Connell is wondering why you've forgotten him.

 

[Deus Irae]

I indicated that no 1st or 2nd rounder was cut before Game One of his second year. O'Connell was a 3rd rounder.

You're right, my mistake. I could explain how it happened, but it involved Tyrone McKenzie and me forgetting that he went IR in year one, followed by me not editing properly, so I'll leave it at that and head off to the penalty box to feel shame.

 

[Claremonster]

Kevin O'Connell is wondering why you've forgotten him.

Because he was the rare exception...

 

[Oswlek]

You're right, my mistake. I could explain how it happened, but it involved Tyrone McKenzie and me forgetting that he went IR in year one, followed by me not editing properly, so I'll leave it at that and head off to the penalty box to feel shame.

LOL! Only two minutes, though, so keep those skates laced up nice and tight! :rocker:

 

[Deus Irae]

Because he was the rare exception...

No, he wasn't, actually. I screwed that up. Mgteich is playing parameter games with how he's defending his point (Tyrone McKenzie was never active for a game before being cut, for example), but I was absolutely wrong given the paramaters he's set up.

 

[Oswlek]

No, he wasn't, actually. I screwed that up. Mgteich is playing parameter games with how he's defending his point (Tyrone McKenzie was never active for a game before being cut, for example), but I was absolutely wrong given the paramaters he's set up.

In fairness to mg, the player in question is a second rounder, so it is somewhat fair to make that distinction. That said, McKenzie and O'Connell definitely add some color to the conversation, and should be noted.

 

[Brady6]

I'm assuming that you are referring to the DE subs at UT last year, which may have been more a reaction to lack a pass rushing DT bodies available. Said another way, had Pryor and Fanane not fizzled out, do you think those smaller interior subs would have played as much?

IMO, if Bill had 300 lbers who could rush the passer, he'd prefer them over guys 40 pounds smaller.

O we’d of been in agreement at the end of last year, I saw it as a lack of personnel as well; since then though watching Belichick release the following player (see below).

Kyle Love- 6’1 320 pounds (4.38)
Brandon Deaderick- 6’4 305 pounds (4.01)
Myron Pryor- 6’1 315 pounds (4.31)
Ron Brace - 6’3 330 pounds (4.40)

Other than UDFA’s he only added one guy in Kelly who is over 300 pounds (6’6 325 pounds) to the roster. I think many people overlook the fact that a 6’6 295 pound Armstead is not that big of a player when you break it down compared to Francis, Cunningham and Benard (see below).

Armstead- 6’6 295 pounds (3.78)
Cunningham- 6’3 280 pounds (3.73)
Francis- 6’2 270 pounds (3.64)
Benard- 6’2 260 pounds (3.51)

Note: Cunningham is and estimated weight based on reports over last 2 seasons.

(#) = pounds per inch.

The player type on a BMI scale of the group released were all similar and the new group (including Francis and Cunningham) that are now being used at the 3Tech all fall into a similar group as well.