Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by TriplecHamp, Apr 2, 2009.
Most mocks had them picking a OT who do you think will slip?
- 2009 1st rounder
- 2010 1st rounder
- 2009 3rd rounder
- QB Kyle Orton
- QB Jay Cutler
- 2009 5th rounder
I think that a WR will slip since Chicago is no longer drafting one. Denver can now draft two of the following three: DE/OLB (Brown per a recent mock), OT and QB. A QB would help a bit, but I don't think it matters since I think all three top QB's will be drafted in the first 22 picks.
I suspect Denver would be willing to take a Sanchez if he slipped to them, but I see them using this windfall to move around for DL and an edge rush, maybe a top RB - Ayers/Brown at #12, then Gilbert/Jackson at 18. Forget Raji, look for them to target Brace in the second. Dumping Cutler helped ths team more than those oxygen deprived bums in Denver know.
You want Denver to take all the players I want in the first? Well, at least you left Britton.
i wonder if the broncos try to rebuild quickly and trade a 1st rounder next year for a 2nd rounder with the patriots
Interesting article from the Chicago Sun Times on the Cutler trade:
Bears get Cutler for two first-round picks, Orton :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Bears
Particularly interesting is what they had to say about Cutler not going to Cleveland, which I had suggested could be a front-runner based on Brady Quinn and their load of draft picks:
"Sources around the NFL say the Bears were among the most aggressive teams in pursuit of Cutler, but they were hardly alone. Washington, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Cleveland and the New York Jets all were trying to seal a deal. Cleveland might have been the winner of the Cutler sweepstakes had the player's agent, Bus Cook, not represented Brett Favre and saw the struggles the long-time Green Bay star had with coach Eric Mangini.
Mangini was fired by the Jets and landed in Cleveland. He reportedly was willing to give up Brady Quinn in a deal. Quinn, who played for Charlie Weis at Notre Dame, presumably would have been a good fit in McDaniels' system. But Cook had made it clear when talks began that Cutler wanted no part of Mangini and fears he wouldn't report to the Browns effectively shut down that deal."
Very interesting stuff. Too bad - Cutler and Mangini seemed like two turds destined for each other.
Now Mangini is the one who's got a QB (or two) on his hands who might be mad that he was trying to trade/replace him (them). All thanks to Belichick trading Cassel. Really worked out pretty well for those of us who get a kick out of seeing Mangini struggle
The only downside from this deal that I see to New England is that the Broncos with an extra first rounder may pick someone who could have otherwise slid down to the 23 slot - even though they surely have different draft needs.
Really? I would have thought they needed to draft either an MLB or an FS b/c Urlacher is ageing, and Mike Brown is almost done.
Nonetheless, this is a dumb trade for the Bears - Lovie Smith prides himself playing Dungy ball...retooling his D should have been a bigger priority. A gunslinging QB will only make things worse for his philosophies.
I know some in the media are already suggesting that Denver will use the two 1st rounders to trade up into the top 5 to get Sanchez, but if they really wanted him then I'm sure the Lions would've gladly given them the #1 overall for Jay Cutler. So that theory is out the window IMO. I think they hope Raji slips now with the positive drug test otherwise it could be Maualuga. Then at #18 they could be looking at Ayers/Jackson til fill that DE spot. I think Josh is confident that he can win with just about any QB under his system.
Unless Denver is convinced that Mark Sanchez is the 2nd coming, it doesn't make sense for them to trade 12 and 18 to move up and get him. Kansas City would probably jump at that offer (it's around 2100 points vs. 2200 for the #3 pick), but if Denver really wanted to do that then way have both Orton and Griese around? Josh Freeman and 18 might be an option, but Freeman seems more in the Cutler mold than the type of QB McDaniels prefers.
For an interesting read by Nolan Nawrocki on how the Cutler trade may shake up the QB situation in the draft see:
NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly
Some comments of interest:
- "Now that Detroit is officially out of the Cutler sweepstakes, it is expected that the Lions will begin opening up negotiations on a contract for Georgiaâ€™s Matthew Stafford, the most physically gifted passer in this yearâ€™s draft and easily the most comparable to the highly coveted Cutler, who was clearly viewed by some teams as less of the problem than a brash, 32-year-old head coach who believes his system is greater than any talent. "
- "With the Bears now out of the QB derby and the first round, the hot spots for the QB position have become even clearer, as both Cleveland and Washington now have to be considered potential landing spots for passers in the first round. With more than three weeks to continue maneuvering, it is still possible that Jason Campbell and Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson could wind up in other cities prior to the draft. The Browns, at No. 5, now can be expected to take an even closer look at Sanchez, as well as the Redskins at No. 13, should a quarterback still be available. With a decision needing to be made on the long-term prospects of Campbell in Washington, and the Redskins clearly not giving him a vote of confidence with their strong trade attempts, it also opens up the possibility for the Redskins to become a player to trade up in this draft to secure a passer."
I don't agree with all of his thoughts, but it's an interesting read.
The big winnners from the Cutler trade in my view could be Josh Freeman and a team like Green Bay or Buffalo at 9 or 11. I think there is a good chance that Stafford goes #1 and Mark Sanchez goes #4 to Seattle, leaving Freeman as the only remaining QB considered worthy of a 1st round pick. With Denver at #12/18, Washington at #13, the Jet at #17 and Tampa Bay at #19, there are a lot of teams who may be interested in his services. The big, strong-armed Freeman seems a natural fit for Washington or the Jets. Whoever wants him may need to trade up ahead of Washington at #13, possibly as high as Green Bay at #9. That would be a huge reach for Freeman IMHO, but desperate teams have been known to reach for a QB before, usually with disastrous results.
For us, this means that both Sanchez and Freeman will almost surely be gone before we pick at 23.
They were already going way before 23 anyway - Sanchez top 10, and Freeman top 20. Sanchez is possibly worth it, Freeman's not, but teams will reach for a QB.
Here's an interesting take from Dennis Dillon at the Sporting News:
SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NFL Football stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from NFL Football columnists
Of particular note is this idea: "The Broncos might have to take a step back before they take a step forward. No matter who their quarterback is, they need to fix their defense if they expect to compete for the AFC playoffs.
But with four first-round picks in the next two years, they will have ample opportunity to upgrade their roster at several spots -- including, perhaps, quarterback. Of course, that's assuming the Broncos hold on to all those picks. This is only a hunch, but maybe McDaniels isn't through dealing. Wouldn't it be ironic if he ended up trading one of those No. 1 picks to the Chiefs for Cassel, the guy he wanted all along?"
Not terribly likely, but stranger things have happened. Denver could trade #18 for Cassel and still have #12 and #48, and extra 2009 3rd and a 2010 1st out of the Cutler trade. That would really be addition by subtraction. KC would essentially have traded #34 for #18 and Mike Vrabel, which isn't too shabby either. They do reportedly like Bobby Thigpen. They could get Aaron Curry at #3 and Tyson Jackson or an OT at #18. Or perhaps KC could trade Cassel and #67 for #18 and Kyle Orton, leaving them with Orton and Thigpen at QB. Denver would be left with Cassel, #12, #48, three 3rd round picks and a 2010 1st. With BJ Raji quite possibly falling to #12 from his drug test, they would really be in good shape to rebuild fast.
I doubt that Pioli would trade the QB McDaniels is comfortable with to him as they're in the same division.
Pioli is a disciple of Bill Belichick. For a first and third pick, he would
trade Cassel to Denver. Remember Belichick did not hesitate trading
Bledsoe to Buffalo. Wouldn't the above trade rattle the cages of all
us forum members?
It wouldn't rattle me because we had a really good spending spree with the money we freed up.
Regarding the division thing, I don't think Belichick would have traded Bledsoe to Buffalo if he'd thought highly of Bledsoe. I think he considered Bledsoe to be a dog who was easy to defend. What does Pioli think of Cassel ? If he really likes him he's not trading him to Denver. If he's unsure that Cassel is for real, that's different.
Of course, this is a good thing, unless you expect the Pats to trade down so someone can grab one of the QBs at 23.
True, but with one teensy difference. Belichick was dumping Bledsoe because he had already penciled in a young Superbowl-winning QB as his long-term starter. So if Pioli can get Ben Roethlisberger to back up Cassel, then a Cassel trade looks really good.
I look at the Cassel trade as a good deal. If they had not franchised him,
the Pats would have gotten the 97th pick in 2010. Instead, they got the
34 pick in 2009, two full rounds earlier. If they had waited longer to
trade him, they would have lost out signing and re-signing all the decent
free agents. I am surprised the market wasn't a little better for Cassel.
I would say OT, possibly OlB or RB with second pick. QB will probably come later McD's experience with QB's say's they can be developed in the later rounds.
Not to mention any QB they take in the 1st will be forever linked with Cutler and the fanbase. Your better off winning with chicken poop and developing a guy.
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