Current status of all BB-era draft picks

[DaBruinz]

My worry on Pats draft proficiency is, not since the 2002 draft when Branch, Givens, and Graham were selected, have the Patriots developed on offensive threat that can put points on the board.

From 2003-2008

3 RBs....Cobbs, Maroney, Hairston
3 WRS...Johnson, Sam, Jackson (not counting Slater)
5 TEs...Nead, Watson, Stokes, Thomas, Mills

Sure, the Pats have spent a #2 on Dillon, #2 on Welker, #4 on Moss. But I argue that any team could trade for quality veterans at any time using future picks, if there was no cap to worry about. But there is and a 2nd rounder goes for a $1 mill/ year while Dillon had a $5 mill salary and Welker $2.7 mill. This cost for a 4th is $0.5 mill/ year while Moss made $5+ mill that year. Bsically we are talking about a double use of resources, pick plus cash, serious cash.

Conclusion: the Pats have failed miserably to develope playmakers on offense which has forced the organization to pay a double cost to fill the need. Yes, Welker and Moss have been outstanding, but the double cost has prevented them from using assets to bolster other areas (ILB, OLB)

This is revisionist history again.

Watson does put points on the board when he's used. I guess you need to be reminded that Watson had 5 TDs in the 1st 5 games in 2007 before going down to an injury that made him ineffective. And he's got 2 TDs through the 1st 2 games this year.

Welker's salary wasn't 2.7 million when the Pats traded a 2nd and 7th for him.

The Pats added Dillon BEFORE they added Maroney. You sitting there and saying that it cost them more to add Dillon is a crock. Same with Moss. Moss only cost them 3 million that 1st year. And he was 10 times better than any rookie from that same year.

As for this double cost garbage, you are looking at things in a vacuum. You are also assuming that a draft pick brings as much value to the table as an accomplished veteran like Moss or Welker. And that's just not true.

 

[DaBruinz]

DB Brandon Meriweather - Active, New England Patriots Leader of the secondary, appears to be becoming a pro bowl caliber safety

I laughed at this

Compared to the actual pro-bowl safties from Miami, Meriweather isn't even close. Hell, even the giants Kenny Phillips showed me more in the games he's played than Meriweather has. Most overrated patriot, without a doubt.

Considering some of the rants you've posted, I am not surprised you beleive this.

Maybe you should actually watch the Patriots games instead of drinking beer the entire time. You're missing a lot.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

"I wish they had" = revision of historical events.
Iron clad.

I wish they had simply means that I wish they had. Saying that the Patriots from 2001 on have done a good job of drafting LB's would be revisionist history.

 

[DaBruinz]

So Mr. Substance, how is it revisionist to wish they had put more of an emphasis on drafting LB's. The fact is they didn't draft a capable replacement player untill 2008 and as of today Eric Alexander and Rob Ninkovich are the next options at LB.

I suggest you go and read Patriots Reign. The Patriots have put a TON of emphasis on drafting LBers. That's why they hadn't drafted higher than the 5th round prior to Mayo. Because they expect so much from the LBers and they were extremely picky regarding who they drafted. BB has said this in interviews. Pioli has said this in interviews. If you choose to ignore them, you are the person at fault. Not anyone here.

 

[DaBruinz]

I wish they had simply means that I wish they had. Saying that the Patriots from 2001 on have done a good job of drafting LB's would be revisionist history.

Just because they didn't draft that many doesn't mean they drafted poorly. This is your issue. You don't understand the difference between drafting players who they don't like for the LB position (ie. square peg into round hole) and not drafting players at all.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

A few things. First and foremost, Pioli was not part of the 2000 draft and BB was using the information that Booby Grier had provided. Second, **** Rehbein worked out Brady and Rattay. And Rehbein said Brady was something special and forced the issue..

Had BB had a full year to work with his scouts, I can guarantee you that the likes of Stachelski, Marriot and Harris wouldn't have been drafted ahead of Brady.

That is a perfect example of revisionist history.

 

[Metaphors]

The Patriots have drafted just fine this decade. No team hits on every single player in every single round. Yet, most of the fans around here expect this from our Pats.

Agree. There are only about 30 "impact" spots on a 53 man roster:

1 QB
3 RB
3 WR
2 TE
5 OL
4 DL
5 LB
3 CB
3 S
1 PK

The rest are inactive, depth and special teams (which is important, just a disappointing ceiling for most draft picks). You should probably expect to have 5 new players per year in this core group of 30...meaning you effectively turn over your team every 6 years or so.

The Pats typically use their 1st round picks (with associated big contracts) to fill one of these slots and get the rest from vet acquisitions and their own development pool. You can disagree with the approach, but it is what it is.

So looking at the 1st round picks (Mayo, Meriweather, Maroney, Mankins, Wilfork, Watson, Warren, Graham, Seymour), the Pats are hitting 100% for players making the impact 30 in their first year...Watson's injury aside.

So the real question isn't about how the Pats draft...it is really about how well they have stocked the development pool with ready talent (regardless of how the pool was filled). In general the results have been amazingly positive, with some glaring exceptions (DT in 2002, WR in 2006, CB in 2007). But don't forget that the Pats have had years with ridiculous numbers of games lost to injury and still won championships.

In general the Pats non-first-round draft picks are thrown into the development pool of players with vets, UDFA and previous draft picks. Who cares which of these types of players step up and eventually make an impact? Both Vrabel and Light were huge contributors, regardless of how the Pats acquired them.

So I think it is fair game to criticize the Pats for not drafting another widebody in 2001, or a WR in 2005, or a CB in 2006. They may have been difference-makers in potential championship seasons. But criticizing the Pats drafting without considering all the aspects of team building seems a little unfair.

 

[DaBruinz]

That is a perfect example of revisionist history.

*ROFLMAO* you clearly don't understand what revisionist history means. Do everyone a favor and just stop now before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Its not revisionist history to say that had BB had a full year to work with the scouts that Brady would have been ranked higher. That's simple fact. You seem to not understand that BB was using the scouting information that Grier had compiled and it was only Rehbein's insistence that got them to draft Brady when they did.

Revisionist history would be saying that BB and Rehbein knew that Brady was going to be awesome and waited until the 6th round to take him so they could make fools of the rest of the league. THAT would be revisionist.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Just because they didn't draft that many doesn't mean they drafted poorly. This is your issue. You don't understand the difference between drafting players who they don't like for the LB position (ie. square peg into round hole) and not drafting players at all.

So what do you want to do give them credit for not drafting LB's. If it's so hard to find someone to fit your system than maybe you adjust the system.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

*ROFLMAO* you clearly don't understand what revisionist history means. Do everyone a favor and just stop now before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Its not revisionist history to say that had BB had a full year to work with the scouts that Brady would have been ranked higher. That's simple fact. You seem to not understand that BB was using the scouting information that Grier had compiled and it was only Rehbein's insistence that got them to draft Brady when they did.

Revisionist history would be saying that BB and Rehbein knew that Brady was going to be awesome and waited until the 6th round to take him so they could make fools of the rest of the league. THAT would be revisionist.

Wrong again.

 

[patsfan-1982]

ill list a few teams that have won the most game from 2000 till now and only there good draft picks

ravens

2000 draft Jamal Lewis Adalius Thomas 2 good picks out of 6

2001 draft Todd Heap Casey Rabach Gary Baxter one good TE a ok center and a ok corner out of 7 picks

2002 draft Ed Reed Chester Taylor Anthony Weaver a ok DE 3 good picks out of 10

2003 draft Terrell Suggs Tony Pashos Jarret Johnson 3 good picks out of 11

2004 draft no starters drafted out of 7 picks

2005 draft Mark Clayton a ok WR Jason Brown Derek Anderson had one good year for the browns thats 3 out of 7 picks

2006 draft Haloti Ngata Dawan Landry 2 good players out of 10 picks

2007 draft Ben Grubbs Le'Ron McClain 2 out of 7 picks

2008 draft we know Joe Flacco is good so far



colts

2000 draft Rob Morris Marcus Washington 2 ok LB out of 7 picks

2001 draft Reggie Wayne Ryan Diem 2 good picks out of 7

2002 draft Dwight Freeney David Thornton 2 out of 8 picks

2003 draft Dallas Clark Robert Mathis Cato June 3 out of 7 picks

2004 draft Bob Sanders 1 out of 9 picks

2005 draft Marlin Jackson 1 out of 10 picks

2006 draft Joseph Addai Charlie Johnson Antoine Bethea 3 out of 7 picks

2007 draft Anthony Gonzalez Tony Ugoh Clint Session 3 out of 9 picks

2008 draft Pierre Garcon so far

steelers

2000 draft Plaxico Burress Clark Haggans Marvel Smith 3 out of 9 picks

2001 draft Casey Hampton Kendrell Bell 2 out of 7 picks

2002 draft Kendall Simmons Antwaan Randle El Larry Foote Chris Hope 4 out of 8 picks

2003 draft Troy Polamalu 1 out of 5 picks

2004 draft Ben Roethlisberger 1 out of 8 picks

2005 draft Heath Miller Chris Kemoeatu 2 out of 8 picks

2006 draft Santonio Holmes Willie Colon 2 out of 9 picks

2007 draft Lawrence Timmons LaMarr Woodley 2 out of 8 picks

2008 draft so far dose not look good we will see

Giants

2000 draft Dhani Jones Cornelius Griffin 2 out of 7 picks

2001 draft Will Allen 1 out of 7 picks

2002 draft Jeremy Shockey 1 out of 7 picks

2003 draft Osi Umenyiora David Diehl Kevin Walter 3 out of 11 picks

2004 draft Philip Rivers Gibril Wilson Chris Snee 3 out of 7 picks

2005 draft Corey Webster Justin Tuck Brandon Jacobs 3 out of 4 picks

2006 draft Mathias Kiwanuka one out of 7picks

2007 draft Aaron Ross Steve Smith Zak DeOssie Kevin Boss Ahmad Bradshaw 5 out of 8 picks

2008 draft Mario Manningham so far

patriots

2000 draft Tom Brady 1 out of 10 picks

2001 draft Richard Seymour Matt Light 2 out of 10 picks

2002 draft Daniel Graham Deion Branch Jarvis Green David Givens 4 out of 6 picks

2003 Ty Warren Eugene Wilson Asante Samuel Dan Koppen Tully Banta-Cain 5 out of 10 picks

2004 draft Vince Wilfork Ben Watson 2 out of 8 picks

2005 draft Logan Mankins Ellis Hobbs James Sanders Matt Cassel 4 out of 7 picks

2006 draft Laurence Maroney Stephen Gostkowski 2 out of 10 picks

2007 draft Brandon Meriweather 1 out of 9 picks

2008 draft Jerod Mayo Terrence Wheatley Jonathan Wilhite 3 ot of 7 so far

i did not add the 2009 drafts we dont know who is good yet

just like all the team's on the list the patriots have had some good drafts and ok drafts and some bad drafts


all of the team's on the list have at lest one SB win in that time the steelers 2 and the pats 3

take it for what it is the pats are still at lest a top 5 drafting team and the only team in the NFL with 3 SB wins over that time

 

[RayClay]

Read what you said. 'to wish they had' is revisionist by defintion.

The players they drafter resulted in the success they have had. To revise history changes that success.

Really. What linebackers they drafted led to their Super Bowl wins?

 

[RayClay]

So drafting Mayo and have him eventually replace Bruschi was not a good move? Wanting that to happen at other LB positions is a bad thing? Could the depth at linebacker be in any way improved by better drafting, the answer is yes. If you're happy with the current linebacking crew than great, I'm not. Becuase they are already a good team means I can't question how they draft?

Apparently that one year of Mayo was responsible for all our success since 2001.

If that's the case, I have to admit it was an incredible pick.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Apparently that one year of Mayo was responsible for all our success since 2001.

If that's the case, I have to admit it was an incredible pick.

It was good pick but so were Tedy Bruschi, Willie Mcginest and Ted Johnson as I pointed out in this very thread. I'm pretty sure they had a little something to do with the success since 2001.

 

[Deus Irae]

Having those picks plus Mayo as the only LB's drafted is what I have issue with. Obviously thrilled with Mayo. If you want to look at an eight year history of drafting LB's look at the teams picks from 92-99. Note that three of the players strongly contributed to 3 championship teams. Others made less significant contributions but contributions nonetheless. Merkerson is the only out and out bust. Sabb and Crawford may or may not would have been good enough to play on the current teams, no way of knowing (and I don't want to be accused of revisionist history) so can only go by the fact that they did play for several seasons. Slade , Collins and Moore were solid for a number of years. Bruschi, Willie Mac and TJ speak for themselves. Katzenmoyer got hurt but had a very good rookie year. I happen to like this list better than yours.

The reality is that your complaint is not that the Patriots were "Bad" at drafting. Your complaint is that they prioritized positions other than linebacker. That's a philosophy argument, not an argument regarding the quality of the draft.

 

[Fencer]

You made an assertion about drafting. It was wrong. Furthermore, some of the draft picks the Patriots would have had in the top rounds (where success % is highest) were used to bring in two of the best receivers in the game. That's only irrelevant to those who made a terrible argument to start with.

Actually, it's not very relevant to a critique of the Patriots' drafting.

It is of course highly relevant to a critique of the Patriots' overall personnel success.

 

[borg]

This is revisionist history again.

Watson does put points on the board when he's used. I guess you need to be reminded that Watson had 5 TDs in the 1st 5 games in 2007 before going down to an injury that made him ineffective. And he's got 2 TDs through the 1st 2 games this year.

Welker's salary wasn't 2.7 million when the Pats traded a 2nd and 7th for him.

The Pats added Dillon BEFORE they added Maroney. You sitting there and saying that it cost them more to add Dillon is a crock. Same with Moss. Moss only cost them 3 million that 1st year. And he was 10 times better than any rookie from that same year.

As for this double cost garbage, you are looking at things in a vacuum. You are also assuming that a draft pick brings as much value to the table as an accomplished veteran like Moss or Welker. And that's just not true.

Welker....5 year contract totalling about $17 mill. Welker signed this new contract before ever suiting up. Remember Welker was a restricted free agent who the Patriots were going to sign an offer sheet for...until a trade was consumated.
Signing bonus: $5.5 million in 2007.
Option bonus: $3.5 million payable in 2008, applied for cap reasons in equal $875,000 increments in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.
Salaries: $550,000 in '07, $1,400,000 in '08, $1.65 million in '09, $1.9 million in '10 and $2.15 million in '11.
Workout bonuses: $56,720 in 2007, 106,720 annually starting in 2008 if he participates in the Patriots' offseason workout program in Foxboro.
Roster bonuses: $250,000 annually starting in 2008.

Moss..."Moss signed a one-year deal for $3 million but could make $5 million with incentives, ESPN said." from NBCSports.com

As far as your level of disgust with the Maroney / Dillon issue. I don't mention Maroney, but I do compare Dillon's cost with the cost of the 2nd round pick he was traded for.

So there's three issues that you incorrectly rebutted.

As for Watson...I really have no problem with Watson. It is funny though that this being his 6th season with the Patriots, his highlight reel is limited to about a half a season of scoring success and a 100 yard tackle. I included the TEs because they do make plays, but my real dissatisfaction was at the WR/RB drafting.

Poor drafting lead them to the double cost trades....and they are double cost. They had needs that couldn't wait until free agency, so they used draft picks. Dillon's 2nd rounder secured his service for 1 year. Moss' 4th secured 1 year, Welkers 2 + 7 got the Pats 5 years. All were also paid star salaries (Moss did reduce his)

Sure, Moss and Welker bring a ton of value, unfortunately the Pats college drafting of WRs has brought no value in 6 years

Look at 2006. After Branch and Givens departed, the Pats had no plan B on the roster. Bethel was dealt and Brown was toast. Jackson was wounded. Caldwell, Gaffney, and Gabriel (traded for) became Brady's headache. It's amazing Brady got this team to the AFCCG...nice one Caldwell. This wasted WR season lead BB to the 2007 retooling by "drafting" vets.

Back to my initial point, the Pats have failed at developing skill positions from 2003-8...WR/RB ...with a C grade at TE.
Maroney's game has not improved 1% and durability issues are constant.
0-3 in WR drafting.
You would think that in those 6 years, there would be at least one stand out.

 

[Joker]

this can be viewed from a variety of angles...I don't think there's a "wrong!!!" or a "right!!. One could easily say, at the slot in the 2nd round they got Welker, since they DID receive a player and the other team USED that pick, that draft pick equates to Wes Welker.Or you could go all "everything's wrong and the sky is falling all the time!!!!!!, and say their drafts are mediocre but they're draft TRADES are very good.

Just why everyone wants to argue this back and forth every day, every week, all year offseason or not is beyond me.

It is what it is, we have who we have. Why beat the dead horse into an unrecognizable blood puddle?.....overkill

 

[RayClay]

The reality is that your complaint is not that the Patriots were "Bad" at drafting. Your complaint is that they prioritized positions other than linebacker. That's a philosophy argument, not an argument regarding the quality of the draft.

Only reason I piped up. The Patriots overall have drafted as well or better than anyone.

 

[jbb9s]

One could easily say, at the slot in the 2nd round they got Welker, since they DID receive a player and the other team USED that pick, that draft pick equates to Wes Welker

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