Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsgo, Mar 5, 2008.
does anyone have a aprox number?
That is the best number you're going to find outside the NFL offices in NY.
With that number being $8.8 million.
"Please note that my numbers do not include the cap impacts of the Sam Aiken signing, the Jason Webster signings or the Gafnney resigning. On 2/28 Jonathan Kraft stated that the Patriots were under the cap by $22 million. I do not know if that $22 million included the tenders to 4 ERFAs and 1 RFA. Irregardless, I believe that my numbers are off from the actual numbers. How wrong are my numbers?? I do not know."
Gaffney got a 1 year, $2million deal. But that only counts about 1.69 against the cap because of the top 51 rule.
My guess is that Aiken and Webster got vet min deals, but we'll have to see what they got. And they could count as little as 120K in additional space if that is the case.
So, for us cap novices, does this mean we're in the ball park of having somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 million left to add players?
How much cap space do you usually chew up to sign the number 7 pick in the draft? I assume a significant amount of this.
Schefter reported Webster's deal was 1 yr and $2.2 mil
The 7th pick in the draft chewed up 2.6 million in cap space last year. This year's will carry a cap tag of about 3 million, but, with the top 51 rule, would only carry about 2.65 million until the cutdowns.
That is, of course, unless they've restructured some other guys contracts like Light or Brady either by guaranteeing salary or by signing extensions.
Then Webster would count 1.89 million or so against the cap due to the top 51 rule.
For the un-cap educated (me), what is the top-51 rule exactly?
From March until the the 1st cut down of training camp, teams are allowed to carry a maximum of 80 players. However, only the players with the highest 51 salaries count against the salary cap.
So, when you sign someone like a Jason Webster and add him to the roster, his full Salary of 2.2 million would count against the cap. However, you also put the lowest salaried player from the top 51 list. Currently, that player is making 323K. So, the change in the cap usage is really less than 1.89 million and not the full 2.2Million.
However, once the final cut-downs take place, all 53 players count against the cap. Also, any player who is on the Injured reserve would count against the cap. This is what forced the Patriots hand in 2003 with Lawyer Milloy. The Pats had over 2 million in salary cap tied up on the IR. The only player that the Pats hadn't already re-negotiated the contract of who could help with that was Milloy. So the Pats had to either get him to negotiate an extension or be cut to free up the amount of money they needed. He chose to be cut.
Good description thanks.
Was that how much Gaffney could earn including his incentives or his cap number??
IMO, a better way of saying this is the salaries of the players with the 51 highest cap numbers are counted against the cap while the other salaries are not. That is, the prorated signing bonus money of the 52nd player does count against the cap.
From the CBA:
"The highest applicable Salary set forth in Paragraph 5 of the NFL Player Contract shall be included in Team Salary in the year earned, except that, between March 1 and the first day of the regular playing season,
only the following amounts from Paragraph 5 shall be included for players whose Player Contracts are not among the Teamâ€™s 51 highest valued Player Contracts, tenders and Offer Sheets (as determined under this
The Patriots had other ways to free up the money. They decided lowering Milloy's salary was the best option.
Well. That's a debatable issue. See, its not good business to cut players who had already re-negotiated. I can remember, distinctly, that Ted Johnson, Tom Brady and Ty Law had already had their contracts changed to free up cap space. Lawyer Milloy was the only one that they could get it from in one fell swoop. Yes, the Pats could have cut other players, but they would have had to cut 2 or 3 to get enough cap space cleared.
Look at Ty Law's salary.
Yes, Law's salary was 4.9 million. He had 3 years left on his contract. He was also a 9 year veteran so the vet minimum would be 655K.
Subtract the 655K from the 4.9 Million and you'd get 4.235Million. Divide that by 3 and you get 1.412 million that would now be amortized over the next 3 years.
So you'd have the following:
655K + 1.412 million + 2.701 Mill + 1.1 mil + 105.6K = 5.9736 Million would be his new cap hit.
Subtract that from the 8.80695 million and you get a savings of 2.833 million.
I can remember the Pats having nearly that in people waived and moved to the IR at the end of camp. It might have even been MORE than that. I don't remember 100%.
I just remember that the only real option was Milloy restructuring his deal or being cut.
And yet the Patriots had so much cap room after Milloy's release AND signing players to replace players on IR during the season that they were able to do the phony LTBE move with Brandon Gorin near the end of the 2003 season to the tune of $3,000,000.
Your words - " I can remember, distinctly, that Ted Johnson, Tom Brady and Ty Law had already had their contracts changed to free up cap space.
If you were that wrong about Ty Law, why should anyone reading this have any confidence in your recollection about Milloy??
There's no such word as irregardless.
Irrespective of that, you know what he meant.
ohhhhh...thx for that --- I had been completely misunderstanding it.
I was reading it as 51 highest cap values.
That is irrefutable!
This is irrelevant, but I find your humor irreverent.
Watch out, I am irascible .
To "ir-" is human, to forgive, divine.
You might be thinking of Gaffney's deal. According to DraftDaddy, Webster's deal is for one year at $730K. And he doesn't deserve one penny more than that.
You're figure seems more reasonable to me but I was just reporting what Schefter said on NFL Network.
With all the FA activity to report, I'm not surprised that Schefter may have erred with one of the signings, esp. a relatively insignificant one such as this.
Bump...so we're somewhere in the range of 6-8 mill under I'm guessing...is that enough to sign (for instance) Seward, Law, 7th pick in the draft and other draftees?
Separate names with a comma.