Curran: Patriots offense gags in crunch time again

[Deus Irae]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

and vice versa........you can remain on his nutsack, seeing what you want to see. but here's the FACT about brady and his 4th quarter.

first drive:
1st and 10 SEA 15 Danny Woodhead right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Earl Thomas and Chris Clemons) 20 10 4.58 4.84
2and and 5 SEA 10 Danny Woodhead right tackle for 4 yards (tackle by Brandon Mebane and Alan Branch) 20 10 4.84 4.9
3rd and 1 SEA 6 Tom Brady pass incomplete short middle intended for Wes Welker is intercepted by Earl Thomas at SEA--3 and returned for 23 yards (tackle by Tom Brady)
CONCLUSION: brady wils a ball that nobody's going to catch......except that it got tipped and intercepted. bad play call AND bad throw by brady...but hey.....at least the defense generated a turnover of its own on the ensuing seahawk drive

2nd drive:
1st and 10 NWE 30 Tom Brady pass incomplete short left intended for Brandon Lloyd
2nd and 10 NWE 30 Tom Brady pass complete deep right to Brandon Lloyd for 23 yards
1st and 10 SEA 47 Stevan Ridley left end for no gain (tackle by Alan Branch and LeRoy Hill)
2nd and 10 SEA 47 Tom Brady pass complete short right to Danny Woodhead for 22 yards (tackle by Bobby Wagner)
1st and 10 SEA 25 Stevan Ridley right tackle for 4 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor and Bobby Wagner)
2nd and 6 SEA 21 Stevan Ridley up the middle for 4 yards (tackle by Chris Clemons)
3rd and 2 SEA 17 Stevan Ridley right end for no gain (tackle by Richard Sherman)
4th and 2 SEA 17 Stephen Gostkowski 35 yard field goal good
CONCLUSION: 1 first down....at least there's an FG out of this one

drive 3:
1st and 10 NWE 20 Tom Brady pass incomplete short right intended for Rob Gronkowski (defended by Red Bryant)
2nd and 10 NWE 20 Tom Brady pass complete short left to Danny Woodhead for 12 yards (tackle by Bobby Wagner)
1st and 10 NWE 32 Stevan Ridley left tackle for 6 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor and LeRoy Hill)
2nd and 4 NWE 38 Danny Woodhead right tackle for 9 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor)
1st and 10 NWE 47 Tom Brady pass incomplete short left intended for Brandon Lloyd (defended by Brandon Browner)
2nd and 10 NWE 47 Tom Brady pass incomplete. Penalty on Tom Brady: Intentional Grounding, 10 yards
3rd and 20 NWE 37 Tom Brady pass complete short left to Wes Welker for 9 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor)
4th and 11 NWE 46 Zoltan Mesko punts 48 yards, returned by Leon Washington for 4 yards
CONCLUSION: yep.....intentional grounding on a drive that's supposed kill time....blame the defense

drive 4:
1st and 10 NWE 41 Stevan Ridley left end for 1 yard
2nd and 9 NWE 42 Stevan Ridley right tackle for 1 yard
3rd and 8 NWE 43 Tom Brady pass incomplete short left intended for Deion Branch
4th and 8 NWE 43 Zoltan Mesko punts 39 yards, returned by Leon Washington for 25 yards
CONCLUSION: another one you need to blame the defense for

drive 5:
1st and 10 NWE 20 Tom Brady pass incomplete deep right intended for Brandon Lloyd
2nd and 10 NWE 20 Tom Brady sacked by Jason Jones for -7 yards. Penalty on NWE: Illegal Motion (Declined)
3rd and 17 NWE 13 Tom Brady pass incomplete short middle intended for Aaron Hernandez
4th and 17 NWE 13 Tom Brady pass complete short right to Wes Welker for 15 yards
CONCLUSION: 1:14 left......all the pats need is an FG. with brady, this is clockwork.....except this time.

so..... 4th quarter overall.....5 possessions, 3 points....but lets blame the defense for something everyone in the house already knew.....but can no longer hope for the offense to help with in the 4th quarter

Thanks for proving my point. It's fascinating to watch people who can't grasp the difference between "not perfect" and "problem/to blame". It's sort of the mated opposite of the McCourty defenders who argue "But he did the job when the ball wasn't thrown his way".

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

QUOTE Steve:Section 102;3200850]The brain trust down in Foxboro has tried to re-build a championship defense with, lets face it, disappointing results, if you use rings as a measuring stick. They replaced arguably a HOF corner back in Ty Law with a succession of guys who, thus far at least, have not played to the level of the championship winning Patriot defenses of the past. They were not able to replace Willie McGinest until likely this season, although jury is still out on Jones, who has the look of a McGinest type. They did not replace the leadership and passion of Bruschi, Vrable and Johnson, although Hightower, Spikes, and Mayo look like they could be worthy. They haven't yet replaced Rodney Harrison, or his predecessor, Lawyer Milloy.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, especially about Rodney. Lawyer and Ty too. These close games were won by guys like them, they were playmakers who made sure that final nail got HAMMERED in.

Maybe that's why the Pats kept adding weapons to Tommy's war chest, trying to compensate for the lack of players like those above, which makes sense but offense can't carry 60 minutes of game. Peyton and Polian tried it back in the day, and Manning looked like a fool everytime he came to visit. Our D pummeled him.

I think this year's defense will gel, meanwhile we need to stop with the L's already- FG's need to be good and no stupid mistakes allowed. Easy Button

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

so..... 4th quarter overall.....5 possessions, 3 points....but lets blame the defense for something everyone in the house already knew.....but can no longer hope for the offense to help with in the 4th quarter

In the fourth quarter of football games this season, the New England Patriots offense does not run the football with sufficient frequency from the base 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB set with Brady under center.

 

[BadMoFo]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

Last drive we take the ball out of Brady's hands and try to run it twice in a row and go 3 and out, that wasn't on Brady.

I didn't mind the runs in those spots, it was just the types of runs. Goal-line, bunch formation? Why not just a few QB sneaks because that's about all we're trying to get.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

I didn't mind the runs in those spots, it was just the types of runs. Goal-line, bunch formation? Why not just a few QB sneaks because that's about all we're trying to get.

Exactly. Like I said the issue for me isn't so much about passing the ball too much or running the ball too much. It's the fact that we make it so obvious what we're going to do and make it that much easier for defenses to stop us. No creativitiy either.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Offense..just like in the Balt game..was to blame..you keep the chains moving like they did all game..it's over and the D isn't put in that predicament.

 

[Deus Irae]

Offense..just like in the Balt game..was to blame..you keep the chains moving like they did all game..it's over and the D isn't put in that predicament.

The Patriots have the fewest 3-and-outs in the league. However, what people here are going to have to get a grip on is one simple fact:

Teams don't march up and down the field and score 8 points on every possession. Sometimes the other team prevents that from happening. This is true even with the Patriots offense.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

Intentional grounding: Loss of down, -10 yards
Sack: Loss of down, -5 to -15 yards

At least with the intentional grounding you have a chance it won't get called and you just lose the down. I'm not sure how the sack is any better.

The main difference is that with a sack, it's usually breakdown by the OL. With intentional grounding you have a mandatory 10 second runoff and it's usually a mistake by the QB who should have either gotten out of the tackle box or thrown it in the vicinity of an eligibile receiver before getting rid of the ball.

Curran has every right to question the offense after what happened in Seattle and also the lack of clutchness in Baltimore and Arizona, although the replacement refs played too large a role in the Balt game imo.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The Patriots have the fewest 3-and-outs in the league. However, what people here are going to have to get a grip on is one simple fact:

Teams don't march up and down the field and score 8 points on every possession. Sometimes the other team prevents that from happening. This is true even with the Patriots offense.

Patriots scored SIX points in the 2nd half.
They scored NINE points over the last 40 minutes of that 60 minute game.
1 for 6 in the red zone.
Deus, you're the one who needs to get a grip.

 

[juny]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

Brady not sharp when protecting leads? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Closer to Chad Henne than Aaron Rodgers.

I know we've blown a few 4th quarter leads, but didn't realize we had blown the third most since 2009. I remember the early days when we never blew halftime leads, more than 30 in a row at one point before a Monday nighter against the Dolphins. Man, we're so spoiled.

Unfortunately it is fact that Brady isn't as clutch as he used to be and this article has some stats to back it up. Still take him over any other QB out there. But he and the team and the coaches need to perform better in the 4th quarter, have seen yesterday's script way too many times in the last few years.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The Patriots have the fewest 3-and-outs in the league. However, what people here are going to have to get a grip on is one simple fact:

Teams don't march up and down the field and score 8 points on every possession. Sometimes the other team prevents that from happening. This is true even with the Patriots offense.

What i find frustrating is that this always happens in the 4th now. I wish teams would stop them in the 1st and 2nd rather than the 4th so the pats have a chance when it's close or they have the lead

 

[robbomango]

Re: Patriots, Brady: Choking on leads since 2009

Love is a beautiful yet blinding thing

When TB has a good game your know where to be found, when he has a bad game your the 1st to pounce and cackle like a madman. It's actually quite creepy.

hate is just as blinding

 

[pork3]

No lead is safe with this secondary.

This has become an endemic problem for this team, and all the resources invested in addressing it has turned out, for the most part, rather futile.

Is it the coaching or is it the personnel, we may never know, but teams, even the mediocre passing offenses like the Seahawks, are having a field day with this secondary.

It's a sad day when a Pete Carroll team turns out the victor due to a relatively inept secondary.

-Jamman

 

[PittPatriot]

The Patriots have the fewest 3-and-outs in the league. However, what people here are going to have to get a grip on is one simple fact:

Teams don't march up and down the field and score 8 points on every possession. Sometimes the other team prevents that from happening. This is true even with the Patriots offense.

Agreed 100% - but I don't think anyone expects a 71ppg average. It just seems like we do a great job marching up and down the field in the first 2/3 of a game and seem to do less in the last 1/3…and the losses at B'More, escape against Denver, and the loss yesterday could have all been averted by converted 1 or 2 more first downs or even getting a extra FG here or there.

The Pass D stinks. No statistical hocus-pocus will overcome the failed eye test. We can blame the overrated losers in the secondary (can anyone waste upper round draft picks on DBs like we can?) or scouting/personnel…but this team will only go as far as the offense can make up for the secondary. If TB is the GOAT for all the credited SB wins…then to me he can also be the goat for the games he should have closed out. He has been given a Ferrari of an offense, above average ST, and a very solid front 7. Now go out and make up for the secondary.
I feel like good teams know - the Patriots peak early and then slow down. All you need to do is weather the initial storm and stay within 2 scores in the final 15 minutes and you will have a shot to win. Peyton Manning probably hasn't slept in a week realizing what he left on the table even after torching us. It is even worse after yesterday - any QB who does not take 5-7 shots WAY down the field (without fear) on this team either is mentally impaired or forgot to watch SportsCenter - that is all the film you need to prepare for this group of DB's. I don't think a safety has looked worse on any single play than Mr. Tavon Wilson did on the go-ahead bomb.

 

[Deus Irae]

What i find frustrating is that this always happens in the 4th now. I wish teams would stop them in the 1st and 2nd rather than the 4th so the pats have a chance when it's close or they have the lead

I see that the Patriots offense still has some issues, and it always will since it's not perfect, but the Patriots have 52 points scored in the 4th quarter this season (admittedly most were against the Bills). Let's break down the drives:

Titans
- 2 4th quarter drives, beginning with 9:20 left and a 28-13 lead. The Patriots took the first drive and ran 7 times, compared with 4 passes, taking up about 5 minutes of clock time and resulting in a FG. The second drive came after the Titans turned the ball over on downs. With the game already over the Patriots ran the ball 5 times and then kicked a field goal.

Nothing wrong there.

Cardinals
- 4 drives, one ending in a TD, one ending in a FG, one being a drive where Ridley lost 4 yards on a 3rd-and-1 from the Cardinals 39, and one being the drive where the Patriots had a TD called back and Gost missed the 42 yarder

Given the O-line situation at the time, there's not much to blame here.

Ravens
- 3 drives, including the one that began the quarter with 2nd and 8 from the Ravens 8 yard line (so really only 2 drives). One netted 2 first downs and got the ball to the Ravens 44 yard line. The other netted 3 first downs and got the ball to the Patriots 49. That was certainly not a great 4th quarter, but it wasn't an epic offensive disaster.

Bills
- 31 4th quarter points. No sense breaking that down

Broncos
- 4 drives while sitting on a 17 point lead. The first drive was ended by back-to-back sacks. The second drive was ended by that horrible 4th down call that got Brady sacked. The third drive ended with the Ridley fumble. The last drive resulted in two first downs and a kneel down. So, 3 bad drives, but not on Brady.

Seahawks
- 5 drives. The first drive was a holdover from the 3rd quarter, and ended with Brady getting picked by Earl Thomas. The second drive sputtered after the Patriots had first and 10 from the Seattle 25 and ran the ball three straight times. The Patriots settled for a FG, giving them a 23-10 lead. The third drive was Brady's second intentional grounding series. The fourth drive was a 3-and-out where the team tried running the ball with no success. The 5th drive was the desperation drive with no timeouts.

All in all, it's nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be:

1 Blowout cruise
2 games protecting big leads
1 game lost by officials
2 games with legitimate 4th quarter difficulties, both against top defenses and one largely a problem due to that Brady INT.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

No but 2 of their losses you can argue that if the pats get even 1 more 1st down..the could have won both of those games...ravens..and seahawks..just 1 more first down needed to at least waste another 1 min of clock if not close it out while on O

 

[Deus Irae]

No but 2 of their losses you can argue that if the pats get even 1 more 1st down..the could have won both of those games...ravens..and seahawks..just 1 more first down needed to at least waste another 1 min of clock if not close it out while on O

Sure, but, in both those games, the offense gave the team the lead and the defense couldn't hold it. 9 points in Baltimore with only 7:29 left, and 13 points in Seattle with 9:21 left...

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Yeah you can blame both the O and D...i blame the O more in the seattle game than in the Balt game.

With the D this year...you have to know somewhat that they can't hold a lead..all the more reason the O must find ways to get 1st downs in critical times in the game


ST also let washington get what a 30 yard punt return there at the end? Horrible coverage

 

[jnug]

I still think that in a league that so favors offense, you have to end games that are within one possession with your offense on the field. Giving the ball up and expecting your defense to hold is flawed thinking in the contemporary NFL regardless of how good or bad your defense might be. Pats offense is simply not getting it done. Really the only difference in the two squads (offense/defense) is that the defense tends to be on the field when the final knife goes in but really both are failing.

I do think that the secondary has become such a glaring issue both in talent and in coaching that mass changes need to be made there. Why do we never get a big secondary guy for example. You would think you would need at least one really big safety and maybe even one big CB in the contemporary NFL. Our guys always seem like gnats running around out there. Don't seem like the most athletic guys going either. Also, can not be missed that the guys we draft for the secondary always regress. Hard pill for BB to swallow I am sure but an inescapable fact at this point.

Lastly, there was a day when the Pats as a team rarely made a mistake on the field, not a clock management error, few penalties, no mental mistakes, no errors in the kicking game. To be honest there were years when it almost seemed inhuman. Now they seem to make many mistakes in a game. Outside of its vaunted quarterback, this has often not been a team of superstars and even now you would say that Brady and Vince are superstar status guys and maybe Welker, Mankins, maybe Lloyd and Grong are star calibre guys and that is it from what I can see. So limiting mistakes used to be a huge part of their game. I think the number of stars and superstars is still pretty limited on this team but the mistakes are much more prevalent than they used to be.