Curran: For Welker it was about ego, not money

[RodThePat]

I'll be honest. There is clearly fault on both sides. I fault Welker and his agent for not at least trying to change the numbers at which the incentives kicked in. I also fault the Pats for not being willing to budge over a miniscule $1M over 3 years last year. Just silliness.

I truly hope that it doesn't bite the Pats in the rear.

It's not about "budging". If you believe Welker is no longer a Patriot because Kraft wasn't willing to part with an aditional $ 1 million per year, you don't think very highly of him. The Patriots wanted to move on from Wes, and offered him a deal that, while represented how they valued him, would almost certainly be covered by another team. Bill Belichick was answering Twitter questions 12 hours before Welker became a Bronco, don't you think he was at peace with how negotiations were going? It's very likely this transition from Welker to Amendola was in the works for a while now. It could blow up on their faces, and it could be another case of Bill outsmarting himself, but that's clearly the direction the Pats wanted to go all along.

 

[DarrylS]

According to Reiss this morning.. it went like this.

Tuesday in the mid-afternoon before the official start of free agency, when the Patriots and Welker's representatives halted contract talks. The team's offer, a two-year, $10 million pact with incentives that could have pushed it as high as $16 million but in the eyes of Welker would be extremely difficult to reach, wasn't accepted.

Things came together quickly with the Patriots and Amendola on a five-year, $31 million deal with $10 million guaranteed, and at that point, there was no looking back for the team. While the Patriots would have been pleased if Welker accepted their proposal -- owner Robert Kraft said Monday that he hoped Welker would retire as a Patriot -- the possibility of losing him and Amendola was deemed too risky, so they moved close to locking in the deal with Amendola not long after free agency began Tuesday. ...

... Yet even after Welker received a two-year, $12 million offer from the Broncos on Wednesday, a call was made to the Patriots to see if the club would sweeten its offer. ... Ultimately, the club informed Welker and his representatives that they had entered into another commitment, which Welker's camp assumed all along was Amendola.

 

[livinginthe past]

Huge fan of Welker - his playmaking, resilience, ability to pop right up after taking a huge hit.

But we have seen this cycle before with Patriots vets that the fanbase gets emotionally attached to - generally speaking most of them move on to pastures new and rarely (if ever) match their Patriots output.

I'm thinking of guys like Asante Samuel, Richard Seymour.

Fans want to superimpose their own emotions on what was a likely a very business-like situation - they want to believe that the things people say when looking for negotiating leverage are 100% accurate and totally heartfelt.

Then you have the usual jackals in the Boston media who can't wait to pounce on the overly emotional, hand wringing New England sports fan - who loves nothing better than to believe that his world has just come crashing down....again.

Like most I am pretty shocked at how much value the market determined Welker to have - it really does illustrate how in the dark the average fan is when it comes to what is going on behind the closed doors of an NFL front office (unless its the Jets, then we know everything within 5 minutes).

So bottom line, be very wary of guys like Curran who know and understand the bent of the average Boston sports fan and their unending need to believe that today is the day that the world ends.

 

[patfanken]

IF it really happened that way i don't blame Welker for taking Denvers offer. If i worked my ass off for a team like WW did and they treated me like that i'd move on too.

Treated you exactly like WHAT reflex? Traded 2 draft picks and gave you what many thought was an overpriced contract for a relatively unknown and unproven player. Paid him over $9MM last season to play a position that the league just told us was valued at no more than $6MM/yr So why aren't the Pats being credited with paying Welker $3MM over the market price, Didn't they do him a favor last season. Didn't they make him what turned out to be an above market offer last season when they were ready to guarantee $16MM for 2 years.

If these stories are true and that he was pissed he wasn't the focal point of the offense at the beginning of the season. If its true that he got pissed that the team didn't trot out Kraft and BB for his contract negotiations (which sounds more like the AGENT's ego that was tweaked and not Wes'.) Then I'm personally disappointed in Wes. I thought Wes was all about winning, all about the team. If these stories are true, then it would seem like Wes was all about Wes.

For me I'd rather believe that these stories come from an agent's posturing and are not true

 

[Triumph]

It was time for Welker to go.

The super bowl drop was 50% on Brady and 50% on Welker. The drops in the 2012 AFCC were 100 % on Welker. Dont forget the Pats go back on flim and review a players whole season grading him on what needs to improve going forward. I seem to recall Welker dropping a lot of catchable passes last season.

 

[Triumph]

That's a bizarre thing to say, given that I've not said that the team is doomed, or anything like that. But, stalk away. The ignore function's there for when you get bothersome. :thumb:

Youre Welkers biggest fan.

Dont forget Brady made Welker, Troy Brown, Branch, Givens, Patten and the others who have come and gone over his career.

 

[borg]

Treated you exactly like WHAT reflex? Traded 2 draft picks and gave you what many thought was an overpriced contract for a relatively unknown and unproven player. Paid him over $9MM last season to play a position that the league just told us was valued at no more than $6MM/yr So why aren't the Pats being credited with paying Welker $3MM over the market price, Didn't they do him a favor last season. Didn't they make him what turned out to be an above market offer last season when they were ready to guarantee $16MM for 2 years.

If these stories are true and that he was pissed he wasn't the focal point of the offense at the beginning of the season. If its true that he got pissed that the team didn't trot out Kraft and BB for his contract negotiations (which sounds more like the AGENT's ego that was tweaked and not Wes'.) Then I'm personally disappointed in Wes. I thought Wes was all about winning, all about the team. If these stories are true, then it would seem like Wes was all about Wes.

For me I'd rather believe that these stories come from an agent's posturing and are not true

Market price???? Please
Harvin and his 677 yds is averaging $11.17 mill
Hartline and his 69 receptions will be averaging $6.15 mill/year
Amendola and his 666 yds is averaging $6.2 mill

And WW and his double production gets a low ball offer of $5 mill/year?????

Guess Bob Kraft felt his "Patriot for life" words were sufficient sweetener to get WW signed.

I can't fault NE for moving on though I am surprised NE wouldn't jump at a short term/low money sure thing vs a longer term leap of faith and health(So unRed Sox like....these days). BB clearly has a more extended vision of the roster which should be applauded, I guess. He nailed the Welker signing six years ago and hopefully he hits the lottery again with DA.
Personally, I've been less and less a fan of this small ball passing offense that dominates the regular season but gets contained too often by the playoff caliber defenses. McDaniels tried to deploy WW more vertically this past season more out out of necessity (lack of any deep threat) but the deeper routes showed WW's limitations (Brady had to be perfect). If BB feels DA can be a more effective target on a more varied route tree, then how can we not see this as a positive?
I think deep down inside, we all wanted NE to construct the perfect offense this off season which included the greatest slot WR of all time on the inside and a certified #1 WR stretching the field on the outside. (Jennings was in my dream team dreams). Combine this pair with our TEs and the sky's the limit. Not to be unless BB finds a draft WR that figures it out real quick.
Next question....how long does it take NE to sign Edelperson and for how much?

 

[fester]

~ Danny Amendola
~ Greg Salas
~ Michael Hoomanawanui
~ Brandon Lloyd
~ Daniel Fells


Salas is gone. Lloyd was from Denver

But the Pats wasted a pick trading for him

McDaniels should not partake in personnel discussions

.

Dude, it was a future year 7th rounder. Current year 7ths have very low value as the odds of any given 7th rounder being a solid contributor (by 4th year getting 50% or more snaps on his primary unit) is under 10%. A future 7th is slightly more valuable than two six packs and an offer to pick up (but not pay for it, everyone is still chipping in) lunch at the next Combine for the receiving team's scouting staff.

 

[patfanken]

Market price???? Please
Harvin and his 677 yds is averaging $11.17 mill
Hartline and his 69 receptions will be averaging $6.15 mill/year
Amendola and his 666 yds is averaging $6.2 mill

And WW and his double production gets a low ball offer of $5 mill/year?????

Guess Bob Kraft felt his "Patriot for life" words were sufficient sweetener to get WW signed.

Borgie, you couldn't be more wrong on the first part of your post. You can't compare Harvin to Welker. Much different skill set. The Pats didn't set the market, the league did. Clearly the top of Wes' market was $6MM/yr for 2 years. The Pats came in a slightly less that that (but don't discount the incentives that could have pushed the deal to $16MM)

Hey, B, we all were surprised with how low the numbers came in, but they are what they are. While many here were criticizing the Pats for low balling Welker last season, we have come to find out that in actuality they were offering him an above market deal, and were doing him a huge favor in paying him the $9.3MM last season. WAY over the market.

I can't fault NE for moving on though I am surprised NE wouldn't jump at a short term/low money sure thing vs a longer term leap of faith and health(So unRed Sox like....these days). BB clearly has a more extended vision of the roster which should be applauded, I guess. He nailed the Welker signing six years ago and hopefully he hits the lottery again with DA.

Personally, I've been less and less a fan of this small ball passing offense that dominates the regular season but gets contained too often by the playoff caliber defenses. McDaniels tried to deploy WW more vertically this past season more out out of necessity (lack of any deep threat) but the deeper routes showed WW's limitations (Brady had to be perfect). If BB feels DA can be a more effective target on a more varied route tree, then how can we not see this as a positive?

I think deep down inside, we all wanted NE to construct the perfect offense this off season which included the greatest slot WR of all time on the inside and a certified #1 WR stretching the field on the outside. (Jennings was in my dream team dreams). Combine this pair with our TEs and the sky's the limit. Not to be unless BB finds a draft WR that figures it out real quick.

Next question....how long does it take NE to sign Edelperson and for how much?

....and you couldn't be more right than you are with the second part of your post (talk about schizophrenic ) BB looks at the offense like a Shark. You have to keep moving or you die. You can't keep doing the same things regardless of how successful they were in the past in the NFL. Teams catch up, its as simple as that. The Pats short range offense as defined by Wes Welker has run its course, and has to evolve.

Maybe if Gronk, Hernandez and Edelman had stayed healthy last season we would have seen more tangible evidence of that transition. But unfortunately they didn't and we were forced to fall back to what we had done in the past.

In an ideal world they would have been healthy and Welker would have wound up with 80-90 catches. The offense would have been more balanced and more effective, especially in the playoffs. I guess it came down to, we know Welker can catch 110 passes this season....but did we really want him to.

Now your guess is as good as mine as to what they do next. I'm guessing they resign Edelman and can probably get it done for just under $2MM/yr... if only for his special teams play and verisitilty. He's a good piece to have around

As for LLoyd your guess is as good as mine. Hard to see us find better at that price. 900 yds is nothing to be sneezed at for a 3rd option. My guess is that they go for a draft pick and groom him to replace Lloyd in 2014 as the primary outside threat, and hopefully he will add some speed to the size.

At any rate nice finish to a poor start.
.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

It seemed like Welker's agent made the attempt to keep Welker in NE/maximize Welkers value. so the hard feeling comments are probably overblown.

From Welker's perspective, I wonder how he feels. On one hand, there is no denying his connection to brady and the style of offense we run. While it can't be a bad thing going from one HoF to the other HoF of the generation, I wonder if Welker will actually be more productive in Denver.

First, he won't be sharing the middle of the field with other premier talents (like Gronk and Hernandez) and he'll get support from WRs that can attack different zones (effectively). Which could leave his as more of a mismatch for CB/LBs covering him and he'll probably take fewer "big" hits with more space. My comments are pure speculation, but I'll definitely have to tune into a denver game or two and watch the stas on the games.

For the Patriots, their passing game will have to take another step/evolution and by having Welker/Brady's binkie not there, it has a better chance of forming...just have to see if it actually improves. If Welker had always been a Patriot, you'd think he'd have a case for HoF being teamed up with Brady and the production he's put out...as of now, it's not likely, but his story isn't over.

 

[Steve102]

So... anything new going on around here?

Look, WR production drops off after age 32. Belichick always lets guys walk with tread on the tires. The position as evolved to favor bigger guys who can go get the ball. A-Hern will play more slot. Another consideration is likely the fact that BB looks at how teams defend the Pats and Welker makes them predictable. He's Brady's binky. Now Brady will have to move the ball around instead of dumping off to Wes. It's a huge gamble. Wes was automatic. The sun rises, sets, and Welker catches 100 balls. Amendola won't. But clearly, Foxboro didn't value the production of Welker at 32 years of age. Whether or not we think the guy is great is irrelevant. Brady's life just became much more difficult. We'll see if it works or not. My guess is Amendola catches 80-ish passes and they go 12-4. An offense without WW is less predictable in the post season. That's the focus down in Foxboro. They are not gearing up to beat NY, Miami, and Buffalo. They need to beat solid defenses in January. NY Giants, 49ers, last year's Baltimore, and they have shown since Welker's arrival that they haven't been able to do that. Time to go in a new direction, and that's a big gamble.

 

[Afam]

Welker is gone. Time too move on. He is not on our team anymore, Amendola is. I will be rooting for him too succeed.

 

[borg]

Borgie, you couldn't be more wrong on the first part of your post. You can't compare Harvin to Welker. Much different skill set. The Pats didn't set the market, the league did. Clearly the top of Wes' market was $6MM/yr for 2 years. The Pats came in a slightly less that that (but don't discount the incentives that could have pushed the deal to $16MM)

Hey, B, we all were surprised with how low the numbers came in, but they are what they are. While many here were criticizing the Pats for low balling Welker last season, we have come to find out that in actuality they were offering him an above market deal, and were doing him a huge favor in paying him the $9.3MM last season. WAY over the market.

....and you couldn't be more right than you are with the second part of your post (talk about schizophrenic ) BB looks at the offense like a Shark. You have to keep moving or you die. You can't keep doing the same things regardless of how successful they were in the past in the NFL. Teams catch up, its as simple as that. The Pats short range offense as defined by Wes Welker has run its course, and has to evolve.

Maybe if Gronk, Hernandez and Edelman had stayed healthy last season we would have seen more tangible evidence of that transition. But unfortunately they didn't and we were forced to fall back to what we had done in the past.

In an ideal world they would have been healthy and Welker would have wound up with 80-90 catches. The offense would have been more balanced and more effective, especially in the playoffs. I guess it came down to, we know Welker can catch 110 passes this season....but did we really want him to.

Now your guess is as good as mine as to what they do next. I'm guessing they resign Edelman and can probably get it done for just under $2MM/yr... if only for his special teams play and verisitilty. He's a good piece to have around

As for LLoyd your guess is as good as mine. Hard to see us find better at that price. 900 yds is nothing to be sneezed at for a 3rd option. My guess is that they go for a draft pick and groom him to replace Lloyd in 2014 as the primary outside threat, and hopefully he will add some speed to the size.

At any rate nice finish to a poor start.
.

Kenny.......Harvin's "superior" skillset might actually get the slot WR to a 1000 yds this year. You may not want to compare the two, but I will and it's not even close. Production, health, attitude....where do you want to begin. If your hanging your hat on the return game, then I would counter with a WW/Gin combo and Seattle would have an extra $4 mill to spend right now.
And I guess we both missed the 2/$15 mill contract WW turned down from a noncontender. Wes got screwed by NE, especially after Kraft opened his mouth. $5 mill/....come on. That was an insult, no two ways around it.I guess during FA, teams need to play the game and cover all the bases, but from my cheap seats, WW gave his all to this team and in the end, he got played like all the other pawns. Who knows what lines NE was feeding his agent, but it appears WW believed NE wanted that last opportunity to save the relationship, but NE had used the delay to strike a favorable deal elsewhere. Wes was naive.....but that's business and I root for the jersey no matter what. All along I wanted to see a new offense, primarily because the small ball system gets defeated that last playoff game each year. I actually am somewhat happy to see Wes go if it means NE plans on transitioning out of this shot gun happy 5 yard pass system. The lightning quick DA signing suggests I won't get my wish which pleases me less than the WW departure.

 

[Clonamery]

Kenny.......Harvin's "superior" skillset might actually get the slot WR to a 1000 yds this year. You may not want to compare the two, but I will and it's not even close. Production, health, attitude....where do you want to begin. If your hanging your hat on the return game, then I would counter with a WW/Gin combo and Seattle would have an extra $4 mill to spend right now.
And I guess we both missed the 2/$15 mill contract WW turned down from a noncontender. Wes got screwed by NE, especially after Kraft opened his mouth. $5 mill/....come on. That was an insult, no two ways around it.I guess during FA, teams need to play the game and cover all the bases, but from my cheap seats, WW gave his all to this team and in the end, he got played like all the other pawns. Who knows what lines NE was feeding his agent, but it appears WW believed NE wanted that last opportunity to save the relationship, but NE had used the delay to strike a favorable deal elsewhere. Wes was naive.....but that's business and I root for the jersey no matter what. All along I wanted to see a new offense, primarily because the small ball system gets defeated that last playoff game each year. I actually am somewhat happy to see Wes go if it means NE plans on transitioning out of this shot gun happy 5 yard pass system. The lightning quick DA signing suggests I won't get my wish which pleases me less than the WW departure.

You'll have to enlighten me how Welker "got screwed."

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

You'll have to enlighten me how Welker "got screwed."

He didn't take the contract we offered him last year? :bricks:

 

[letekro]

No, Tom, it's about making the football team better. Thankfully, it always has been under BB. Of course, that is a boring story, or at least one that will not play to the emotions of your average joe six-pack fan who is ready and willing to swallow up the unfair management angle, so we get tripe like this.

 

[BadMoFo]

From what I've read, sounds like Welker could have made $16 million here if he reached his incentives. Gotta think they are achievable, since he's been a 100+ catch guy his whole time here.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Here's what's amusing and predictable: I keep hearing and reading words like "arrogant" and "hubris" when it comes to the Pats losing Welker (even though they clearly had and acted immediately upon a plan). Yet the Ravens are dismantling a Super Bowl champion team piece by veteran piece and all I read is "Ozzie has a plan."

 

[DarrylS]

No, Tom, it's about making the football team better. Thankfully, it always has been under BB. Of course, that is a boring story, or at least one that will not play to the emotions of your average joe six-pack fan who is ready and willing to swallow up the unfair management angle, so we get tripe like this.

The mediots on talk radio will have a great day with hopping on board this line of thinking about how Welker got "screwed", by the selfish Patriots.. of course it will be laced and supplemented by how can you call BB a genius???..

 

[IllegalContact]

welker has his own demons.......he obviously pissed off BB enough to be pulled from the starting lineup in a playoff game. he then made his emotions public in a way BB doesn't like after complaining about not being in the scheme as much at the beginning of the season and then 'sticking it to the FO' on his 13 catch game later on in the season.

it seems as though the FO appreciates people who go ape like mankins than little snivelers who spend long periods of time sulking. maybe he would have been better off flipping some tables over and breaking a few beer bottles on the stadium wall

either way, I personally believe welker got some bum advice from his agent although he still landed in a pretty damned good spot. he just needs to remember that none of this was possible unless BB saw what he saw in welker........talk about a guy who got every ounce of ability out of someone....he'll be good, but he won't be the same in denver.