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Crowds swell in Madison as budget protests continue

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    This is nothing but an attempt to bust unions. With the unions gone there will be no organized opposition to corporate funding of candidates. The union should shut Wisconsin Down.

    Govenor Walker says he'll call out the national guard to deal with the protesters, Paul Ryan says its like Egypt, he must watch Beck.

    Wisconsin Democrats AWOL for heated vote - USATODAY.com
     
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I applaud Wisconsin. States and municipalities are held hostage by some of these public employee unions. Wisconsin wanted the unions to pay a small percentage of the healthcare and pension premiums, the unions scoffed, and the governor took action. Instead of paying 0% of medical coverage, workers will be asked to pay 12.5%, as well as 5.8% to their pension. I don't think that's unreasonable.
     
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah...those public sector people in Wisconsin, they're grossly overpaid and over compensated.

    Average teacher salary in Wisconsin

    Starting Salary: $25,222
    Average Salary: $46,390

    Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390

    Average Police Salary in Wisconsin

    $42,000.00

    Average Police Officer salaries for job postings in Wisconsin are 17% lower than average Police Officer salaries for job postings nationwide.
    Police Officer Salary in Wisconsin | Indeed.com

    Average Firefighter Salary in Wisconsin

    $37,000.00

    Firefighter Salary, Salary for a Firefighter
     
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    You need to add in the cost of healthcare (most people working for a private business have to pay for a portion) and the value of those pensions. How much would or you have to put aside per year over a 20 year period to replace 80% of our salary? Keep in mind that people approaching retirement are likely not making the average. They usually end up conveniently working a lot of overtime during their later years.
     
  5. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Also, there are a lot more positions in the public sector besides fireman, police and teachers. A LOT more.
    What are those toll booth collectors make a year, for example.
     
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    I enjoy watching conservatives complain about Teachers, and firemen making too much money ... 45k.....way too much money!

    Then defend wall street bonusues, because they 'earned it', y'all disgust me.

    Oh and then sit there and tell me they are too expensive to insure!!!

    YOu all are the ones who back employer based health plans...not a singler payer...its a-frickin-MAZING that an entire political party could be so contradictory. All you seem to think about is how we can pay poor people less, and give corporations more.

    Unions give workers a seat at the table. What is going on in our once great nations to the voice of the worker/middle class is about as sad as it gets. JObs shipped overseas to turn a quicker profit...complain about the unemployment levels, slash the unions so the workers have no say...BLAME THE WORKERS and the UNIONS. Y'all are mad...crazy...bonkers.

    Good for Wisconsin! Keep up the fight!
     
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Can't find the exact salary for Wi. Let's assume they're making the national average, though. It's the Midwest - they're either making the same or quite possibly a bit less considering that the police, firefighters and teachers all make a bit less than national average.

    The average toll booth collector makes a whopping $20,264 per year.

    Toll Collector Job Description, Career as a Toll Collector, Salary, Employment - Definition and Nature of the Work, Education and Training Requirements, Getting the Job

    Easier to find is the salary of the governor of Wisconsin - he's pulling in a paltry $137,092.00. His salary ranks 19th among U.S. governors' salaries. The average salary earned by U.S. governors is $128,735.

    Wisconsin state government salary - Sunshine Review

    I'll bet he's got a better expense account than the toll booth guys do, whadda ya think?
     
  8. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Nope...sorry Mrs PF,

    The toll collecters are pretty much single handedly bringing down the badger state. We should simply lay them all off and let people ride the bridges and highways for free...


    who will repair the infrastructure you might ask? well...ever heard of a little thing called a "Tax-cut"? That will fix just about everything.


    In closing.... Tort reform
     
  9. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    wow, finally change. this is what the state voted for when they elected who they did. if they don't like the change then vote them out in a couple of years. i have a feeling lots of these pubs will get reelected.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The majority of state employees are clerks, and for the most part they are poorly paid...

    They are being demonized in an effort solely to break unions..

    There are fat cats all around, but usually they are the non union folks who sit at the top..

    When I worked for the state, I contributed to a pension, paid social security and paid for part of my medical benefits.. used to have close to 20% taken off the top.. before taxes..
     
  11. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Great point, Most if not ALL the big money salaries go to people Not in the union. Their manangement, they're not in the union. So when RW puts up a story about 200 state workers making mad money he needs to understand those people AREN'T in the union.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I love what the Democrats are doing. This brute force effort to block collective bargaining is a throwback to another era, and the Democrats are right to do all they can to block the Republicans. This legislation is almost as extreme as Rand Paul's advocacy for the right to discriminate based on race. These people really are nuts.

    Wis. lawmakers flee state to block anti-union bill - Yahoo! News

    A group of Democratic Wisconsin lawmakers blocked passage of a sweeping anti-union bill Thursday, refusing to show up for a vote and then abruptly leaving the state in an effort to force Republicans to the negotiating table.

    As ever-growing throngs of protesters filled the Capitol for a third day, the 14 Democrats disappeared around noon, just as the Senate was about to begin debating the measure, which would end a half-century of collective bargaining rights for most public employees.

    ...

    With 19 seats, Republicans hold a majority in the 33-member Senate, but they are one vote short of the number needed to conduct business. So the GOP needs at least one Democrat to be present before any voting can take place. Once the measure is brought to the floor, it needs 17 votes to pass.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This isn't so much about salaries there though people. This is about the cost of benefits which are spiraling out of control, and having employees pay a portion of them. It's in the article that was first linked.


    Something people also need to consider on both sides of the argument, is that the salaries for positions vary from state to state, just as the value of earnings do. $40k in MA probably isn't the same as $40k in maybe Idaho persay. I know cops in NH don't make the six figures that cops and fireman make down here. So this isn't a one size fits all problem for every part of the country, but they are an issue in most parts, and for different reasons.
     
  14. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve In the Starting Line-Up

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    I have to read more on this proposed law in WI . I thought I heard it was a bill to give the taxpayers referendum right of refusal on any collective bargaining agreement reached between the unions and the appointed officials who negotiated it. This would give both affected parties (the taxpayers and the unions) to said agreements a voice in the matter for the first time ever? I might be wrong about that, so I really gotta read the text of that bill.

    If true, I can only support such legislation. In any other agreement, the negotiators for the company have to take it back to managemet for ratification, as does the union to the rank and file. This will give management (the taxpayer) leverage for the first time in public employee negotiations.

    Again, forgive if I have this wrong.
     
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    If this were really about a fiscal crisis why go after the ability to bargin collectively, That doesn'tsave any money. This is clearly designed to go after unions. When workers pay their union dues the political branch spends part of that money on the campaigns of poiticians that support workers, and thats not usually republicans.
     
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    This isn't about anything except knocking out people who tend to vote democrat. Ask why the cops and fire department are not included in the stripping of CB? They contributed to the republicans. This is a systematic attempt to silence democrats, and it's a messed up way to govern.

    people are outside of John Boeners house in Ohio as you read this.
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    Fiscal crisis my big fat furry behind. Wisconsin was projected to run a surplus this year, then got a brilliant pubbie gubner, who declared a big fat tax giveaway to the wealthy. Badda bing, badda boom, "we can't afford our state employees."

    You guys are idiots if you buy that horsecrap.

    PFnV
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Um....


    Election 2010

    Next Wisconsin governor faces big deficit

    Candidates promise tax cuts amid $2.7 billion shortfall
    By Jason Stein and Patrick Marley of the Journal Sentinel
    Sept. 12, 2010 |(107) Comments

    Election Coverage

    Madison — The state faces a looming $2.7 billion budget shortfall, but that hasn't kept candidates for governor from piling on with what are likely to be hundreds of millions of dollars in new commitments to cut taxes or increase spending.

    Next Wisconsin governor faces big deficit - JSOnline
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I read that the bill would attach raises to the consumer or inflation index (some index anyway), and that any raises sought above that figure, would have to be voted on by way of a public referendum. So they wouldn't have happen to them what the BFD did to the city of Boston, where they got a 17% raise over 3 or 4 years.
     
  20. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats what I read too. But I hate to comment specifically without reading the text of the bill. So all collective bargaining rights are still secure with the union and only if increases exceed the CSI does the taxpayer even have a say. Yeah, thats reason to riot in the streets.

    There's gotta be something worse than that. Otherwise, this stinks of a politically staged event.
     

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