Crayton - "Defensively, they are not the real deal."

[Oswlek]

Turn some of the 7 out of 10 possessions the Cowboys had 5 plays or less into drives, and the Patriot offense isnt on the field controlling the clock.

That's why it is a team game. I never said that NE did a terrible job against Dallas, just that they did some things that a more disciplined team might be able to take advantage of.

I honestly have no idea why what I am saying is so controversial. Some seem to have the misguided opinion that I am some Patriots detractor or something. To the contrary, just a cursory check of my post history and one can see that I have been much higher than the masses on:

Welker
Wilson
Samuel - in 2006
Morris
Seymour - we shall see but I think he will be his old self when he comes back

And the not so hot ones:

Jackson
Mills

So I am consistently more optimistic on NE's players, but yet many seem to think that I toss around criticisms of the Pats like a Jet fan?

 

[Metaphors]

Turn some of the 7 out of 10 possessions the Cowboys had 5 plays or less into drives, and the Patriot offense isnt on the field controlling the clock.

Take the 6 kickoffs that went into the endzone and make them shorter, Cowboys have better field position to open up their offense.

Have Gostkowski miss that 45 yard FG and the Cowboys start their next drive down 4 at the 35 instead of down 7 at the 21.

Offense, defense and special teams are all supposed to work together in "a symbiotic relationship" (thanks Ellis). Field position, turnover margin, time of possession...these things involve all 3 phases acting with a common goal and gameplan.

If you blitz constantly (a high energy activity) on defense and try to strike quickly on offense, don't be surprised if your gassed defense falls apart in the 4th quarter. If you have a great punter, playing a field position game and trying to pin a team inside their own 20 seems like a good way to help your defense be successful and get your offense a short field to work with.

Pioli and Belichick didn't build the team as 3 distinct, separately managed units...so we probably shouldn't evaluate them that way either.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess Crayton should fire himself then.
If the Patriot defense isnt any good, and he could only muster 46 receiving yards, then I guess he sucks worse.

By the way, I love the 'penalty argument'.

Its so perfect. You fail. You find an excuse, penalties. No matter whether the excuse is legitimate at all. Then you make the Grand Canyon-esque leap that you would have done anything any way without the penalties.
First of all, if they didn't hold Bruschi, they turn it over on downs. So the penalty only gave them a second chance.

The play called back by a penalty isn't what is lost, because the play happened BECAUSE OF the penalty.

I think Crayton should worry more about the games ahead of the Cowboys than to try to make himself feel better about the one they were blown out in.

 

[cstjohn17]

Sounds like Crayton and TJ Douchmanzadah are cut from the same cloth.

Pretty big talk for a 7th round pick with 94 career catches. Personally I don't want our defense to peak in week 6.

How come he didn't comment of how good the Dallas defense is?

For once it would be great to see Brady take off the filters and rip into an opponent, until then we will have to do it for him.

 

[Ring 6]

Take the 6 kickoffs that went into the endzone and make them shorter, Cowboys have better field position to open up their offense.

Have Gostkowski miss that 45 yard FG and the Cowboys start their next drive down 4 at the 35 instead of down 7 at the 21.

Offense, defense and special teams are all supposed to work together in "a symbiotic relationship" (thanks Ellis). Field position, turnover margin, time of possession...these things involve all 3 phases acting with a common goal and gameplan.

If you blitz constantly (a high energy activity) on defense and try to strike quickly on offense, don't be surprised if your gassed defense falls apart in the 4th quarter. If you have a great punter, playing a field position game and trying to pin a team inside their own 20 seems like a good way to help your defense be successful and get your offense a short field to work with.

Pioli and Belichick didn't build the team as 3 distinct, separately managed units...so we probably shouldn't evaluate them that way either.

Umm, my post was being used to refute the 'whatif'.
The original comment was something to the effect that the offense made the defenses job easy, because the Cowboys only had 21 minutes of possession.
The point being that both the offense and defense affect time of possession.

Our defense held them to 7 of 10 drives of 5 or fewer plays. That was as much a factor in time of possession as that when our offense got the ball, it held on to it.

 

[Metaphors]

Umm, my post was being used to refute the 'whatif'.

I was agreeing with your comment and expounding upon it...not being contradictory. Probably should have quoted the original "whatif" post to make that clearer.

 

[Ring 6]

That's why it is a team game. I never said that NE did a terrible job against Dallas, just that they did some things that a more disciplined team might be able to take advantage of.

I honestly have no idea why what I am saying is so controversial. Some seem to have the misguided opinion that I am some Patriots detractor or something. To the contrary, just a cursory check of my post history and one can see that I have been much higher than the masses on:

Welker
Wilson
Samuel - in 2006
Morris
Seymour - we shall see but I think he will be his old self when he comes back

And the not so hot ones:

Jackson
Mills

So I am consistently more optimistic on NE's players, but yet many seem to think that I toss around criticisms of the Pats like a Jet fan?

I was only responding to the fact that you implied the defense had its ***** covered by the offense. I didn't consider it Anti-Patriot, just short-sighted.
You can criticize the defense for 3 drives. Other than that they were almost perfect.
I think I am OK with a defense that is perfect 70% of the time, no matter what happens the other 30% (again with the understanding that was a very good offense on the other side of the ball getting paid to score on them)

 

[Ring 6]

I was agreeing with your comment and expounding upon it...not being contradictory. Probably should have quoted the original "whatif" post to make that clearer.

OK, so we agree with each other, and both made it seem like we didnt.

 

[Metaphors]

OK, so we agree with each other, and both made it seem like we didnt.

Absolutely. The defense actually allowed the offense to get off to a good start which set the ball in motion for the rest of the game. McBriar is an excellent punter and if the Cowboys make it out near midfield, the Pats are likely starting their early drives inside the 15 instead of at the 26 and 43. Big difference.

 

[aluminum seats]

I think what's exciting about this is that it's clear the Pats' defense hasn't played up to its potential yet--you can't just discount two very long touchdown drives bracketing the half as if that's nothing. That said, they were dominant in the first quarter and most of the second half after that drive.

I think you WILL see this D becoming truly dominant as the season progresses, Seymour comes back, Thomas continues to get acclimated to the inside, etc. The hope, of course, is that they avoid any significant injuries--eg Wilfork, Thomas, etc. Any of the starting LBs, really.

 

[patsox23]

Even after facing three powerful offenses in a row (Cincy is the fourth ranked offense and the 7th ranked scoring team, Cleveland ranked seventh on offense and is the fourth highest scoring team, and Dallas is the second ranked offense and is the second highest scoring team), we are the second ranked defense in the league, sixth in points allowed (which includes the TD we gave up on the Brady strip sack), fourth in passing yards allowed per game (which is big considering we force the opposing offenses to air it out a lot), and fifth in rushing yards allowed per game.

We have faced three of the best offenses in the league and are still ranked at the top or near the top in most important defensive categories. I think our defense is for real. We had a few breakdowns here and there, but we are still stopping people on defense.

Great points. Good insight.

 

[ALP]

after crayton beats us, then ill listen to him...

 

[BTTA]

That's the third Cowboy who has needed to tell us that the team hasn't lost any confidence. Hmmm.

 

[Ring 6]

I think what's exciting about this is that it's clear the Pats' defense hasn't played up to its potential yet--you can't just discount two very long touchdown drives bracketing the half as if that's nothing. That said, they were dominant in the first quarter and most of the second half after that drive.

I think you WILL see this D becoming truly dominant as the season progresses, Seymour comes back, Thomas continues to get acclimated to the inside, etc. The hope, of course, is that they avoid any significant injuries--eg Wilfork, Thomas, etc. Any of the starting LBs, really.

The thing is that there isn't a defense in the league that doesn't allow TD drives.
Giving the Cowboys 2 TD drives, a FG drive and 7 drives of 5 plays or less is a very good defensive day against that offense.

Its frustrating that many posters expect perfection from a defense (interesting how most of the commentary in the past used to be about expecting the offense to be perfect) to call it good.
If we play as well defensively in every game left on the schedule as we did last Sunday, we will hoist another Lombardi in February, and Larry Csonka won't be drinking his annual glass of champagne.

 

[patsox23]

The thing is that there isn't a defense in the league that doesn't allow TD drives.
Giving the Cowboys 2 TD drives, a FG drive and 7 drives of 5 plays or less is a very good defensive day against that offense.

Its frustrating that many posters expect perfection from a defense (interesting how most of the commentary in the past used to be about expecting the offense to be perfect) to call it good.
If we play as well defensively in every game left on the schedule as we did last Sunday, we will hoist another Lombardi in February, and Larry Csonka won't be drinking his annual glass of champagne.

Totally agree. People seem to think a defense is only "dominant" if the pitch shutouts or hold a team under double-digits EVERY WEEK. They pay the other guys, too, and the Cowboys are a fairly potent offense. The D made some adjustments, and I suspect will continue to improve because, well, that's what they ALWAYS do.

 

[Remix 6]

i somewhat agree. Our ranking as a D doesnt match our play. We miss tackles..we dont get a good enough pass rush. im not trying to be negative..but its the truth. we've struggled on defense 2 weeks in a row and our defense is very beatable unless we learn to tackle, swarm to the ball and rush the passer. we've been in position at times..but we dont tackle. its always 1 guy at a time.

 

[emoney_33]

i somewhat agree. Our ranking as a D doesnt match our play. We miss tackles..we dont get a good enough pass rush. im not trying to be negative..but its the truth. we've struggled on defense 2 weeks in a row and our defense is very beatable unless we learn to tackle, swarm to the ball and rush the passer. we've been in position at times..but we dont tackle. its always 1 guy at a time.

We have struggled on defense for a couple of series in each of the last two weeks. We have NOT struggled on defense for the entirety of the last two weeks. Missed tackles have NOT been a problem this year aside from isolated cases like the ridiculous "we cant bring barber down in the endzone for a safety" run. Our pass rush has been solid, but we tend to start off less agressive, keeping the run-stopping responsibilities and not over pursuing.

Every single defense struggles at times. Teams make adjustments, other teams have talent, no one will pitch 19 straight shutouts ever. We still only gave up 17 points to the cowboys (if you dont include the drive in which they started in FG position after the KR and still only got a FG). I understand there are times where you scratch your head during a game and the other team looks to be moving at will, but that happens to the best of them. Adjustments are made and that doesn't last, that is what makes a good/great defense. Their ability to adapt during the game and react to the adjustments on offense their opponent are making.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

In fairness to Dallas, a large contributor to Dallas' season lows was the fact that NE's offense was so good. Turn two of NE's TD drives into punts and Dallas has more opportunities to generate yards and points.

Even if Crayton is a jackass, I don't necessarily disagree that NE's defense looked a little vulnerable. But I just think that Dallas presented some matchup issues with their size that most other offenses, including Indy's, don't present.

I think you make a good point Oswlek, but there is another side to it.

If Dallas was the #1 ranked offense, how did our offense ever get on the field long enough to dominate the game?

Shouldn't it have been a tit-for-tat scoring frenzy?

You can't make the case for our defense being vulnerable when the #1 ranked offense in the league up to that point only managed to scored 17 points and couldn't stay on the field long enough to even out the time of possession.

 

[Metaphors]

i somewhat agree. Our ranking as a D doesnt match our play. We miss tackles..we dont get a good enough pass rush. im not trying to be negative..but its the truth. we've struggled on defense 2 weeks in a row and our defense is very beatable unless we learn to tackle, swarm to the ball and rush the passer. we've been in position at times..but we dont tackle. its always 1 guy at a time.

While you never want to miss tackles, I don't jump to the same conclusion as you do. Except for the Braylon Edwards 36yd TD, I believe the longest play the Pats D has given up is 26 yards. That is remarkable! That doesn't seem to jibe with your "unless we learn to tackle, swarm to the ball" comment.

There are obviously areas of defense that can be tightened up...but let's not miss the forest for the trees. In my opinion, the Pats defense has played exceptional considering the context of the game and what Belichick is asking them to do. They aren't being asked to pitch shutouts, so let's not hold them to that criteria. They are being asked to get the opposition into 3rd down situations and get off the field...which I believe they are the best in the league at doing.

The defense could definitely improve. Offense and special teams too. I really think that given a wholistic view of the situation, it is overly negative to classify the results and effort on defense the last two weeks as "struggling".

 

[Ring 6]

i somewhat agree. Our ranking as a D doesnt match our play. We miss tackles..we dont get a good enough pass rush. im not trying to be negative..but its the truth. we've struggled on defense 2 weeks in a row and our defense is very beatable unless we learn to tackle, swarm to the ball and rush the passer. we've been in position at times..but we dont tackle. its always 1 guy at a time.

Our tackling has been as good as any defense.
Nope, we dont get pressure on the QB every time he passes. I guess that means we suck. Or on the other hand, maybe that means this is the NFL and no team does. Our pass rush has been well above the NFL average.

If our defense has been VERY BEATABLE, why has no one come close to beating us.
Wouldn't the Cowboys have gained more than 40 total yards in their 5 possessions after they took the lead, against a very beatable defense?
We were standing on the field in a postion to be beaten and shut them down. That doesnt sound like what a very beatable defense would do.