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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    :rofl: ... you can't make this stuff up ... can you?

    Health Care is a Human Right! Work for Healthcare Reform, $10-15 an hr

    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  2. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I forget....... would these be the patriotic, or the un-patriotic astroturfers with swastikas? So hard to keep track. :singing:
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Denver: ***YEAR ROUND JOBS FOR THE PUBLIC INTEREST***

    Boston: *MAKE an IMPACT* LEADERSHIP opps avail* $10-15/hour*

    Philly: **Help Make Healthcare Affordable and Accessible for All - $9-14/hr

    New York: **TALENTED LEADERS needed to work for health care reform $11-16/hour**

    :rofl: ... the healthcare atroturfing foot soldiers making a bit more than they could at Walmart.

    every state and major city in the country can be found with this company on Craigslist

    ... FOG'S FAVORITE.
    :spygate::deadhorse::scream:
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Are these workers Un-American?

    If they're doing it for pay ... but didn't do it for free ... is that Un-American?

    Perhaps Harry Boy can ask Nancy when he meets her for a spot of tea.
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Looks like standard canvassing and phone canvassing.

    That ain't quite the same thing as shouting down your congressman at a public meeting at the behest of industry lobbyists :)

    Here's what you're missing:

    When the goal is to talk to thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, gather support, and grow that support, ya call that organizing.

    When the goal is for industry lobbyists to round up a bunch of "the great angry masses" and shout down the vast majority who are there to discuss the issue, that's called astroturf.

    Got the distinction? Grass-roots organizing is aiming to nurture and grow support through the grass-roots, i.e., by expanding the segment of the populace that agrees with you and is willing to be active.

    Political operatives taking off their office attire, throwing on blue jeans, and describing themselves as just a mom... and marching in lockstep to shut down the process... welp, that just ain't the same thing.

    But yeah there may be a good proportion of them taking their marching orders from industry thinking it's really what's best.

    So let's say that the dollars spent by industry to create this "movement" are unimportant, and the astroturf protests are grassroots protests.

    Do you believe them to be a constructive way for Americans to learn about what's in the bill(s) under consideration? By ending the meeting where the information is supposed to be available?

    I don't.

    PFnV
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You sure they aren't looking for a few good thugs to rough up the guys with canes and call then niggers? Like what happened to the Blakc conservative the SEIU thugs attacked?
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I think this crap goes on by both sides... Not I think - I know. I can find many articles where the left shouted and shut down debate when Bush was President. Please with this spin ... both sides do it ... both sides shout or sit in or act with manners as needed. Anyone who believes this to be a new ploy invented by the right has been locked in a basement for too long.

    I can't believe you're towing the party line on this one.

    I can find articles where Pelosi was working with Code Pink ... shouting right in front of her no less when Bush was President. She said their shouting invigorated her and the debate ... well now she hates them and they hate her. Come on PFnV ... you really can't be buying this media ploy ... not you.


    PELOSI ... "“Preserving our planet is a national security issue…,” Pelosi said and paused. “I always say the best preparation for combat is combat,” she responded. “So just go for it, I respect your enthusiasm.”
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The meetings would have been irrelevant if pelosi had her way. She wanted the bill voted on and passed before the August recess. This is why the people are so angry ... and they have a right to be. We got stuck with a stimulus bill that was crafted behind closed doors and which our lawmakers voted on without reading.
  11. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    You mean you don't like the patronizing, condescending "we know what's best, so shut up and let us get this legislation passed, even if I haven't read it" attitude?????
  12. reflexblue

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    Its just another way Obama is working to stimulate the economy and creat jobs. :rolleyes:
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry's afraid a "Death Van" is going to roll up infront of his house and ask him to step inside to claim his "free prize" :p
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    :D That's a good one ... we can thank George Soros also then. :D

    :D While we're at it we can thank the people supporting the shouters ... more bingo $$$ :D

    In a way it's kind of sad really ... I mean our Congress is always being pushed and prodded by paid professionals and they say we're a democracy of the people. :confused2:
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  15. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    What do you expect- it's not an election year.
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    This whole "voted on without reading" schtick is getting old. Look skippy, your congressman probably hasn't read the majority of major appropriations bills cover to cover, personally, and I've never heard you complain about all the other legislation they voted on "without reading."

    Again, most staffers are not bits of fluff there to provide eyefood.

    As to the desired pace on Pelosi's part, versus the "will of the people," I do think people are scared enough of major change that delay -- like we've now got -- probably feels quite comfortable to them. The pacing is purely tactics; the guts of bill are what they are: a timid movement toward rational allocation of health care and rational cutting of administrative overhead.

    But the pace makes people nervous. Change makes people nervous. Gotcha. Now that there's an extra (recess) month involved, what's your excuse? That's what, 33 pages a day, to read our vaunted "1000 pages!!!"? Think they'll have read it and can now vote on it in September?

    Or are you still going to be ranting about how many pages are in the bill, and about how nobody has read it?
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    They didn't want it read ... just voted on ... bunky ... okay? ;)

    It's not the right or the shouters that slowed it down
    ... it was the blue dog democrats ... hip hip hooray for them ... :woot:
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .... or sending professional hecklers and disruptors to any speech given by anybody to the right of John McCain at any college campus in America, from 1965 until today.


    'Heckling and dissent are fine American institutions .... (as long as it is done by hard left agitators .... ) " ...... :wha:


    :nooo:.....................................................:nono:
  19. PatsFanInVa

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    Realllly? Got a link on any John McCain speech they had to shut down due to the presence and persistence of hecklers?
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    I'm talking about "conservative" candidates and speakers like Ann Coulter. Just google "conservative speakers heckled/shouted down on university campuses". Should keep you busy.

    Here's a start: conservative speakers heckled/shouted down on university campuses - Google Paie?ka

    See you in a month or so. Don't get lost.



    //
  21. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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  22. PatsFanInVa

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  23. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    None of the town halls have HAD to been shut down, in some case the dems were cowards who couldn't answer legit questions about what are in these bills.
  24. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    So having to stop entirely while the person is getting carried away still shouting isn't the same?

    Right :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  25. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .


    Just craigslist being craigslist.


    Shut it down.

    //
  26. PatsFanInVa

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    If you lived in this country and read any of the larger cities' alternative weeklies, you would see pretty much the same ad. Shut them down too? How about ads if they make the real newspapers? Shut them down?

    And we all know print is dying; no need to say "they're going under anyway."

    As to the Astroturf point, yanno what?

    I give up. You're absolutely right. There are differences in application (which made the town halls an exercise in futility in many cases,) but you're right: it's not a difference in kind. I stand corrected.

    The tactic of disrupting these meetings--funded and organized by the Insurance Industry--while right-wing congressmen quote verbatim "think tanks" that were set up by the Insurance Industry to study themselves, is not, in fact, outside previous experience.

    There's a difference between McCain collecting a fee and still having to put up with a heckler, and the attempt to incorporate citizens' input into our legislative process (and for congressmen to explain their viewpoints) being made impossible by these misinformed mobs. But it's a difference in scale and application, not in kind.

    Yes, they deserve and have the right to be arrested and/or forcibly removed, the stated response to a single individual yelling during a McCain speech to a college.

    So as I've said elsewhere here, the term "Astroturf" seems to be an "inside" term that's been applied in broader media, and has a built-in drawback: It is indeed that case that if one asserts that insurance companies are the heroes of the downtrodden, their organizing of said mobs is, in fact, very much a mirror image of the "netroots" campaign that got the president elected, or an echo of earlier "actions" for various causes across the spectrum.

    It's noteworthy, however, that by the standards of this thread, you, Foggy, are in fact an astroturfer as well, paid to disseminate a set of religious and political biases.

    So perhaps such distinctions do have some value after all :)

    PFnV
  27. DarrylS

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    The dems did not answer the staged questions of the medical insurance company.. there is a difference, when will the right understand that they are being used as tools by the medical insurance industrial complex.. they have the most to loose, because they have the most.

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